Why an Egg Freezing Giveaway Succeeded with Ella McMahan of Spring Fertility
Season 2 Episode 1
Why an Egg Freezing Giveaway Succeeded with Ella McMahan of Spring Fertility
Listen to the episode on Spotify or Apple now!
Ella McMahan leads marketing for Spring Fertility and its sister brands Open Fertility and Nest Donor Bank. In this conversation, Ella breaks down the realities of IVF and egg freezing, why education beats fear, and how patient-first marketing, community events, and smart influencer partnerships can literally change lives. If you care about building brands that feel human and drive outcomes, this episode delivers.
Why Spring built an accessible sister clinic model at half the cost
The marketing lever that matters most in healthcare: education before sales
How to speak like a girlfriend without dumbing down the science
Building community in a vulnerable category without forcing 24/7 chatter
The influencer campaign that set a new bar for impact and authenticity
Messaging rules that make clinical info feel clear, warm, and useful
The under-discussed myth: getting pregnant is “easy”
Partner ideas Ella is chasing: clothing rentals for stim bloat and wearables research
Leading with empathy using the first follower framework
Word of mouth that works: why in-person moments beat performative posting
Whether you are marketing a clinic or a consumer brand, this episode is a masterclass in building trust when stakes are high. Ella shows how language, access, and genuine community moments turn fear into informed action. You will walk away with usable ideas for customer education, partnerships, and leadership that actually scales care.
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Emily Jean (00:00)
welcome to or welcome back to Founders in Jeans. I'm your host, Emily Jean. And before we get into the episode, I just want to say a huge thank you so much for listening to my podcast. It means the world to me. It is a really special project to me. It's very close to my heart.
I also wanted to say that if you enjoy the show, feel free to leave a review on Spotify or Apple, wherever you're listening to this, and also to follow us. You can follow us on Spotify, of course. You can follow us on Instagram at FoundersinJeans You can also find me on Instagram at Emily.Jeans.
or you can look me up on LinkedIn. I'm always happy to connect with people on there and I have a lot of good conversations from listeners. Also, you can always leave a bad review for us. I'm totally fine with that. And in fact, I think that's exciting. I would love to know what we can do to improve. So you can also leave comments below and let me know what you enjoyed, what you didn't enjoy. I actually do read every single one.
We also have a newsletter that comes out once a week so you can get all the updates from us. also put in
some weekly business and marketing updates as well as some personal notes from me. You can subscribe to that on my LinkedIn, also through the Instagram and in the show notes below. Anyways, that is all from me. I'm so excited for you to listen to this episode. I hope it's a good one and I'll chat to you soon. Bye.
Emily Jean (01:36)
Okay, Ella McMahan Of Spring Fertility, welcome to Founders in Jeans. I'm so excited to have you.
Ella McMahan (01:38)
Yes.
I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me. ⁓
Emily Jean (01:46)
Of course, why don't
you tell everyone a little bit About yourself.
Ella McMahan (01:51)
Yeah,
totally. So I am Ella. am like Emily said, the director of marketing at Spring Fertility. And we have a few different brands under the Spring umbrella. So Spring Fertility, Open Fertility and then Nest Donor Bank. So I oversee all three of those brands. And just for a little bit of background, because I know we'll be talking more about my industry and all the things today. Spring Fertility is a full service fertility clinic. So IVF, egg freezing, IUI,
by third party reproduction through donor tissue or gestational carriers. So again, just to give a little bit of background, but I've been with Spring for almost six years at this point and came in as the second marketing hire. So I've really seen a lot of growth and excited to dive in and talk about it.
Emily Jean (02:41)
Okay, I'm so excited. feel like fertility is something I'm hearing more and more about. I mean, I don't think that's surprising, especially as I'm getting into my 20s, later 20s, mid 20s. But I heard somebody the other day said, like, it's never too early to start thinking about, like, your own fertility and what you want that process to look like in the future. So yeah, I feel like this is a very well-timed.
conversation. really excited.
Ella McMahan (03:06)
Yeah, I love that. I feel like I hear that all the time. I'll like be at a dinner party and meet somebody new and tell them what I do. And they're like, my gosh, my girlfriend just told me that she froze her eggs or like, you know, it's always kind of this conversation I feel like is like circling people. But I like when I get to have a conversation with someone about it and be like, here's actually the information. Yeah.
Emily Jean (03:25)
Right. Good. I love that. I love that.
Okay, great. Well, I want to kind of go back to the beginning. you said six years now. So yeah, what kind of led you to go into that role?
Ella McMahan (03:35)
six years here.
Yeah, so it was not at all what I set out to do. So I've actually been working at spring my entire career since I graduated college and I came out of college. went to school in Los Angeles and when I graduated, I moved to San Francisco and I really wanted to work for one of the like really cool fun San Francisco based brands like Allbirds was like my dream or like Levi's or Pottery Barn and I actually interviewed with
all of them and didn't get any of the jobs which at the time was like you know so crushing and it was late fall of 2019 at the time and I had again just moved to San Francisco and
I was doing some like freelance stuff and I ended up finding out about spring through a Facebook group. My now manager who has been my manager for the entirety of my time at spring replied to a comment on a post that I had posted that was like, I'm a new grad. looking for a job in marketing your events or communications. And she was like, I'm hiring for a community manager. And
At the time I had actually gotten an interview at a PR firm that I was like way more excited about because again I had been like, oh I really like want to work on these like fun cool brands and I was like fertility like IVF like I barely know what that is like I was 23 right I'm like this sounds like so lame and then I went into my first interview with again my now manager and she told me this story about how she had been sitting in a coffee shop recently near one of our clinics and
And someone had come up to her because they saw the spring fertility sticker on her computer and they had a baby with them and they were like, I have a spring baby. Like he was born through IVF. I like, thankfully at the time we weren't really on zoom yet. Cause it was like still 2019. Um, I'm just on the phone with her and I like started to like tear up and she was just like, it's so meaningful. Like the, you know, abilities, like put up a Facebook ad and then like have somebody get a baby at the end of that is.
like crazy. And so I was really like, okay, even though I and I did end up getting the PR job as well. But I was like, this seems like maybe it's more of an impactful situation. So I ended up going with spring. And it just like expanded my worldview so much. And I think that like I've learned so much since being like a 23 year old who really didn't know anything about my body candidly at the time, like I thought that he did. And now after working here for so long, I'm like, wow, I didn't
really know much. I think that, you know, it's been quite a journey. And again, it's almost been six years, but it's just like the most impactful place to work. And I think that a lot of people probably in healthcare would tell you that, that like healthcare, while it can be like stuffier, clinical or whatever, like you really do to the impact that you're making.
Emily Jean (06:35)
that term community manager too. I think we're hearing a lot more about community nowadays, but I think six years ago that was not really at the forefront at a lot of brands. And it totally makes sense that that would be at the forefront of a fertility company.
Ella McMahan (06:46)
Yeah.
Emily Jean (06:51)
Um, and yeah, narrowing down that mission, I guess, to we post something on Facebook and then somebody connects to it and like gets a baby out of it at the end is a, that is an amazing, like that is a crazy idea. And I love that. Like it's so simple, but it's so true. That's brilliant. I w I want to go back a little bit then. So you're, you're leading the marketing for an entire family of brands.
Ella McMahan (07:07)
Mm-hmm, totally. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Emily Jean (07:17)
For people who aren't really familiar with what that structure looks like, what does that mean to be leading the marketing for these different brands?
Ella McMahan (07:25)
Totally. so spring is, and I just, say spring, but I'm talking about, you know, multiple of the brands. Spring is more, I would say in the like less like corporate big structure. it's not like General Mills who has like all these brands underneath it, right? It's more like, it's not quite a startup, but I think we're sort of in that middle phase still a little bit. We're about 10 years in. And you know, when I think about just like how that looks from a like tactical standpoint, it really is that
Spring is sort of like our, not sort of, it is our premier brand. So we have spring locations in California and New York and in Portland, Oregon, and then Open Fertility, which is our brand new brand under the Spring umbrella. opened in January of this year. It is an excessively priced fertility clinic.
basically the the whole idea behind this is that like more and more people are needing fertility treatment and it's just it's so expensive honestly like and we wish that every single person could come to spring and get a spring experience but like $25,000 for IVF right and so like that's just not accessible for everybody and so we opened in Sacramento as well as in Queens
in Astoria in New York. And it is about half the cost of a cycle at spring for both IVF and egg freezing. And the model is just different. So again, you see a nurse practitioner, it's really good for people who have no fertility insurance coverage and they just, can't afford to pay the spring price. And so again, it's a newer model, but it's something we're really excited about. And then we have Nest Donor Bank and
That is essentially for all intents and purposes. It's just like the same as any other kind of like egg or embryo donor bank. We don't do sperm at this point. But for example, if you're a spring patient and you need a donor egg or donor embryos, you can just work with Nest and it's just a bit more of a streamlined process for the patient. So they don't have to like go to an outside egg bank, you know, work with spring to like do all the testing on the tissue that they, you know, want to bring inside of spring.
think it's just vetted at Nest already and so it's like up to the spring standard and it's really easy for a spring patient to use.
Emily Jean (09:39)
Wow. So it's so interesting. I have so many questions. I'm sure a lot of people do, right?
Ella McMahan (09:45)
Yeah, no, totally.
Ask me anything, I'm ready. Yeah.
Emily Jean (09:50)
I'm sure you've heard it all.
So interesting. I love too that you're being transparent about what it costs and like what that looks like too, because I do think we hear a lot about IVF, IVF, IVF, IVF. And it's like, what does that actually look like for the average American, for example, which is, I think it's really is unapproachable. It seems scary too, not only uncomfortable, but it's like a process, you know,
I know in short hormones and that's about it. I guess I want to ask you what is it, what does your day to day look like in your role? what does that look like?
Ella McMahan (10:16)
Yeah, yes. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah. So.
Like I said, I started as a community manager and then I was brand manager and then a senior manager and now I'm in this director role. So I've, I've touched every single piece of marketing at spring at this point, which has been really cool. And I think, you know, really served me in the role that I'm in now, because I know exactly what levers we can pull and how they're going to respond. But my day to day now is a lot more about zooming out and like thinking about the strategy, not only of the like digital
marketing and things you think of when you think of marketing, but also the marketing operations part of it. So I work a lot cross-functionally with our call center team and our finance team and you know, other operations, clinical operations to make sure that the patient experience from like the first ad that they see or the first time they hear about us in their OB's office to when they are graduating from spring, either having frozen their eggs or
they're pregnant, that it's like a seamless experience that we are centering the patient experience in all things. And so I'm often used as almost like a gut check for those kind of cross functional teams to be like, here's the email for finance that we're going to send out to patients, like, we're updating, you know, our templates, like, what do you think of this? And then I'm like, okay, that's actually way too, like, as a way to say that, like, we're gonna bring that back to like the
and the empathy that's at the center of our brand ethos. ⁓ So yeah, it's stuff like that.
Emily Jean (12:01)
Right.
Okay, I love that. So I know that speaking on that, like there is a lot of, guess, I think reproductive health is kind of soaked in a lot of clinical terms or in shame. And so I am curious, how do you balance then that zone between informative but also inviting and empathetic?
Ella McMahan (12:24)
Totally. So again, I think this is like really about centering the patient experience and what we have seen as a marketing team. And I would say just like as a team generally at spring and our other brands is that like,
Education as a first step for marketing is like the best possible way to do things for a fertility clinic. So I think that, you know, something we hear, and this is like so interesting to me, having worked at Spring for the entirety of my like fertility career, right? Is that like one of the girls on my team, she had, before she worked at Spring, she had gone to one of our competitors for a consult and she got blood work done.
and then she just like in her app got her results and like nobody ever called her to explain it. And in the app, it was like, you you have a low AMH, which AMH is like a hormone marker that we use to measure.
basically your ability to get pregnant at any given time. And so she tells a story about how she's like, I freaked out, right? Because nobody called me or told me what was up with this. It was low, was I infertile, was I never gonna be able to have a child, right? And so I think that the reverse of that is how can we educate people before they even walk in the door?
And that is like brings the community aspect of it into it as well. Right. Like we host so many events in all of our markets because we want people to be able to like walk in the door for free to like a restaurant or a fitness studio wherever we're hosting this event and like sit across from a doctor and get their questions answered for free before they ever have to walk into the clinic. And then I will tell you like as again, like somebody who's in this demographic, right. And who has a lot of friends who have like gone through egg freak
And it's this different experience that other clinics are not offering. And I think other sectors of healthcare are not offering. And so, you like you go to the OBGYN to like get your IUD inserted and you're terrified because you're like, I'm seeing on TikTok that people like passing out when they get their IUD inserted, right? And like, what an amazing opportunity for the OBGYN's office to like present you with information before you even walk in the door and say like,
Emily Jean (14:29)
All
Ella McMahan (14:39)
Hey, sometimes it's painful and this is what we're going to do about it. So like people aren't freaked out. And I think that like infertility, what we hear so much is that making that first appointment is actually the hardest part for a lot of people because whether they're doing egg freezing or they are coming in for IVF services and trying to conceive, like there is this level of, have to acknowledge that I need help in some capacity and like that's really hard. And I think when you've gotten the education upfront of like this effects,
like IVF one in six people need help getting pregnant. And it's like probably under reported. So there's probably more, right? Like probably sort of one in four or one in five and being able to have that knowledge before you walk in the door makes it so much less scary. And so I think, yeah, just like when we think about marketing spring or open or nest, like it's all about what can we give to people before they're even a patient because that makes them feel so much more comfortable with us.
Emily Jean (15:33)
Yeah, I love that too. think I'm always thinking about how can businesses and brands stay relevant in a fast moving world basically. And I think actually with the introduction of AI, we see a lot of businesses who are moving into this robotic kind of manufactured experience for their clients. And I've been, chatted with somebody the other day, we were talking about how like
Ella McMahan (15:40)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Emily Jean (15:58)
careers or jobs or businesses that have humanness at the center of it. And like that approach is what will outlast that because that's what people will be looking for even more. And so that ability to create like a journey of education, but also welcome and it's like, you you're not going to be in the dark basically. Even though it might be in some ways easier or more cost effective for a company to do that.
I really don't think that is like the long term way of achieving success for a brand. So that's brilliant. I'm curious, what has been like the most powerful campaign or message that you've worked on so far in your time?
Ella McMahan (16:41)
Yeah, so before I was in this director role and when I was a senior manager, I was managing all of our influencer partnerships. And this was something that it's so funny. Like when I talked to my manager about it now, I'm like, I feel like I bullied you into like letting me work on influencers. We opened in New York and I was like, we have to work with influencers. She was like, that's not really our brand. And I was like, no, we have to. And like, it's been amazing for the business and
Emily Jean (17:03)
You
Ella McMahan (17:07)
It's really cool to reflect on some of those. I think that my favorite campaign that I ever worked on was with Serena Carrigan. I don't know if you're familiar with her, but yeah, she's amazing. And she was one of our, or maybe was our first really big influencer that we worked with. And she's done two cycles with us and has just been not only such a joy internally to work with, but also
Emily Jean (17:16)
love her. Yeah.
Ella McMahan (17:34)
is so passionate about the subject that she's really gone above and beyond and like
Aligned herself with our ethos of education. And so we've hosted multiple events with her We have done, you know so much like branded social content We have given away a free egg freezing cycle to one of her followers That was her idea and she was like all over the cost of meds like and I will tell you no other influencer and there have been many amazing ones but like no other influencer that we have worked with that spring has had that level I think of
just like connection to like what they were really doing for like a group of egg freezers to like educate them on like not only what is egg freezing, but like here are the things you need to know about your reproductive health in your 20s and 30s that like nobody's telling you. And beyond that, like.
how can you take the first step to empower yourself? like, you know, that's her whole thing, right? It's like empowerment. And so I think she like really took it in stride. And again, like,
working with influencers is so interesting, right? Because you have the people like her who are just like, I want to go above and beyond and like do all the things and they really care about this. And there are people who are like, yeah, I'm an influencer. So I want to freeze my eggs for free. Like, where's my paycheck? And so she's the opposite of that. And so I think like, again, a combination of her going above and beyond for her audience and really understanding what this is about. And like being a joy to work with just on the back end has like, far and away, I always think of her so fondly.
Emily Jean (19:03)
Yeah, that's brilliant. Also, I would have never thought of combining like influencers with a fertility, but it totally makes sense, especially somebody like her who has such a strong community already and the demographic is very much there. That's brilliant. Like, yeah.
Ella McMahan (19:17)
Exactly.
Yeah. And people
trust. I mean, this is kind of sad, right? But like,
people trust influencers more than they like trust their own doctor sometimes. And so like my whole idea behind this, was like, if people are going to trust an influencer anyway, like if we partner with them and we tell them exactly what to say, or like we approve what they're going to say, then we're getting the information to people, but it doesn't have to be through us. Such an easier way to do that and feels a lot.
I think just more authentic to people to receive it in that way.
Emily Jean (19:53)
Right,
right. So I guess then going off the back of that from language to design to influencers, is there a specific element do you think that helps make fertility marketing resonate more today with the consumer?
Ella McMahan (20:08)
Yeah, I think that it's all about messaging. I think that the reason influencers are so effective is because they talk to their followers like they're their girlfriends. ⁓ And obviously, there has to be a balance between like, you know, it's not like getting a blowout like egg freezing, right? Like, it is scientific, and it's clinical, and it's all these things. But we don't have to talk about it.
Emily Jean (20:18)
Mm.
Right. Right.
Ella McMahan (20:33)
in such a way that feels like you need to have a degree in biology. And so I think that like, when we just think about messaging as a tool, when I am like earlier today, I was, you know, looking at a piece of print collateral that we're going to share in Long Island when we open there in a few weeks. And I'm reading it and I'm always thinking like, okay, if I were sitting in a doctor's office and I saw this postcard, what would I think?
And so like everything is filtered through that brain, like not only just from me, but like from other members of my team who again are like in this target audience. We're like, actually think that that would feel cheesy or I think that that would feel like I didn't understand what that means. And so I think that like really centering again, like that human narrative of like, what would people understand and want? while also I think like just a little bit of like, you know, imagery is
also important, like you want people to see themselves in the brand. so I think, again, like what you said about AI is so true, right? Like just having different like designs or whatever is like really not going to end up cutting it because people are going to be like, this all looks the same. It all sounds the same, right? Like chat, tbt has a voice. We all know it. And so like, I think that, just the combination of like really human centric imagery that
Emily Jean (21:47)
Right.
Ella McMahan (21:53)
mimics what our customers actually look like and then again like speaking to them in a way that they want to be spoken to is really important.
Emily Jean (22:01)
Right. When it comes to building a community, which I know that you guys have a very strong community, how are there any tools or platforms that you have found that specifically have really helped foster that, you know, kind of sense of trust in such a vulnerable space?
Ella McMahan (22:17)
Yeah, it's interesting. would say like actually no, like a platform and a tool, not not really. We and it, you know, I will say just to back up like
I was listening to the Hot Smart Rich podcast yesterday and they were talking about how when they created the first iteration of this WhatsApp group that we met in, it was on Slack and it didn't really land with people. And we have tried in the past to do a Slack channel or do a Facebook group. And it was in the era of COVID, like 2022, 2023. So I think that people weren't necessarily ready for that or they were just bogged down by it. But I do think that now more than ever,
Emily Jean (22:51)
Mm-hmm.
Ella McMahan (22:57)
we see people wanting connection, but I think that our patients specifically are looking more for every so often connection in person versus constant connection online. Just because it's, mean, they're not thinking about fertility every single day, right? Like once they do it, and so it's not necessarily on their mind as much, but...
Yeah, so not a specific tool online, but events are like a way that we have continued to foster that. Yeah.
Emily Jean (23:23)
Right. I
actually really love that distinction. think there's a tendency when you're building something, building a brand, is to want to do everything. And we hear like community is this trending word. So we need a constant WhatsApp group or, you know, a Facebook group that's always engaging each other and connecting with one another. And I think it's very fair and appropriate to say, well, look, this is...
It's a singular process and of course there is going to be an element of community and connection there, but it doesn't need to be constant. And also there is going to be a certain time and age where it won't be as big of a priority or even a priority at all. Theoretically, if it's successful, I mean, that's kind of the goal. Yeah.
Ella McMahan (24:07)
Yeah, you never think about it again. Yeah,
totally. And I think that like, you know, I and I've been an ambassador for various brands over the years. And like, I think that when I look at the brands that I've been an ambassador for, there's one particular, I don't know if you're familiar with the canned wine brand Bev.
But they're now sold and they don't do their investor program anymore, unfortunately. it started, the brand started when I was in college and it was based in Venice. And so like, I got really involved in it. Some of the girls that I went to school with worked there after college. But they were so intentional about like, how can we all meet up and how can we get product into your hand so you can foster community with the product in your hand? And I think that like other brands that are just like, we'll send you something.
get
in posts about it. It's like, that never works. Because your brand is not the center of my universe. But like, when you hand me something that I can incorporate into what I'm already doing with my friends, and then like, my friends were all just here. I just got engaged a few weeks ago. And they were all like, Do you have any Bev? Like my friends from college. And I was like, No, I don't have any Bev. But it's still something they ask about because it was like, you know, part of like our universe at the time.
Emily Jean (24:56)
Right.
Right,
right, right. 100%. I love that. I love that distinction too about community. saw somebody said the other day, community is not random people on the internet talking to each other. It's like the goal is somebody really likes and resonates with the brand. And then they say to their friends, my gosh, you've got to check out this podcast where this brand or XYZ. I really like that's such a pure distinction because it's very true.
Ella McMahan (25:22)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Emily Jean (25:46)
I never
recommend things to my friends unless I'm like 100 % obsessed. Yeah.
Ella McMahan (25:50)
Totally, totally. And
we get so many of our patients from word of mouth and friend referrals. And we're trying to, we've tried a few times over the years to like have an ambassador program. And finally we've like iterated and I'm sure we'll continue to iterate, but like we just were talking about it a few weeks ago and I was like, we can't try to like make them post on social media about that. I was like, we do invite them to a wine bar and they get them to talk to each other and then they'll have us on their mind and talk to their friends about us more.
to do this whole thing and I think that I mean it remains to be seen of course but I think that like it will be effective in this new iteration because we're not being like you need to be talking about spring all the time.
Emily Jean (26:28)
Right. Right.
Well, and like even when you consider, you know, big brand trips, influencer trips, ⁓ you know, I think it was Ollypop and they spent like a crazy amount of money. And you, think now the consumer is really a bit done with those because it just seems so forced. And of course it looks glamorous, but I'm not like on the trip with them. And then if I'm at the grocery store, I'm not like,
Ella McMahan (26:36)
Mm-hmm.
Emily Jean (26:54)
wow, I remember how XYZ looked in that bikini next to the pool. So it is, mean, I'd have those things, like they make transitions and come back and go and but, by the way, congratulations on your engagement. That's so exciting. I love that. I saw in your bio, you said that outside of work, you are the connector and you're hosting, officiating weddings and starting deep conversations.
Ella McMahan (26:58)
You're not supposed laugh.
Totally, totally.
Thank you.
Emily Jean (27:22)
How has that shaped how you lead at work?
Ella McMahan (27:26)
Yeah, so I think that, you know, it's, have you ever heard of the first follower, like leadership theory? Okay, so.
Emily Jean (27:32)
No, I haven't.
Ella McMahan (27:34)
I'm kind of a leadership nerd. I minored in leadership in college and I was a communications major. So all I did was read about stuff like this. So basically the first follower, you can look up the video on YouTube, but it is this video of this man and he's dancing alone at a concert. It's in this big open space.
He's dancing alone for a while and then this other man comes up and he's like the first follower and once the second person comes up then this like whole crowd of people comes up because they're like, okay now it's like cool because there's two people right and so I feel like everything that I have like, you know, whether it's like creating connection or leaving my team like really comes back to this idea of the first follower which is like
There's always going to be people who are like visionaries and like have the big idea or are the first person to speak up. like, typically I'm actually not really that person. Like I'm a bit more introverted, but where I really see my strength as a connector is the, come in and I can be like, I think that's a really good idea. And here's why everyone else should get on board. And like on top of that, I think
part of that is being like that first person, like I see you and I understand what you're trying to do. And I think that, you know, officiating weddings, like I just did my brother's, which was so special. And like, of course I know my brother so much more than like I know his wife. I just, grew up with him, right? But like, there was no world in which I was gonna like make it all about my brother. Like I wanted her to feel seen too, right? And like,
I think that that is sort of the common thread with everything that I do is like, I want to be the person when somebody's telling a story and everyone else like starts talking in another group that I'm like, I'm still listening. So I think that's just like, that's like innate in me, but also I think learned through like a lot of leadership classes that I went through that like
Emily Jean (29:16)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Ella McMahan (29:25)
The best leader is really the person who is not always the visionary, but is like, okay, that's amazing. You're amazing. And like, here's what we're gonna do to get everyone else on board.
Emily Jean (29:35)
Yes. I love this. have so many thoughts on this. was actually, I the director of marketing for a luxury brand in California last year. And I was leading a small team and I got some feedback from my manager that I was too soft. And I think that looking back and everybody has their own way of approaching that sort of thing. But looking back, I'm
Ella McMahan (29:38)
Yeah.
Okay.
yet. Yeah.
Emily Jean (30:00)
it makes me kind of sad that like I got that feedback because for me, I felt like I was just being friendly and welcoming and inviting and empathetic. ⁓ And I think often as women, we're expected to like, you know, not be that person, like not be the first follower and like kind of like we're hold to this double standard of you need to be impressive and accomplished and badass, but also kind and soft and whatever it may be and feminine.
Ella McMahan (30:08)
Goodbye.
Emily Jean (30:29)
And I love too that you're making that connection between, this is what goes on in my personal life. And I've taken a big emphasis and this is how it comes into my work. I think that's brilliant and beautiful and people don't talk about that kind of idea enough at all.
Ella McMahan (30:44)
Yeah, well, thank you. Yeah, I think that I mean, you're so right about the double standard, right? It's like, yeah, you need to be like a girl boss, but then also be soft and be all these things. And like, I feel like I've heard this on so many like founder podcasts and like, you know, Second Life and all these different things where
the people who are really successful, if you like broke down all of those with AI and you're like, what's the common thread? It's like that these people knew when to bring somebody else into the mix when they weren't the person who could keep the dream alive. And like,
I feel so strongly about that that I'm like, again, I'm not always the person with the best idea in the room. And like, I'm actually very okay with that. Like, I know how to rally the team around the other amazing person on my team and be like, that's such a good idea. How can we make that happen? And I do think to your point, like that needs to be celebrated more that like we need empathetic leaders and like we need people who aren't leaders because they're the loudest person in the room, you know? Yeah.
Emily Jean (31:47)
Right. Right.
And I think I would even say, like, in my experience, women, at least, if you're leading a team of more women, they respond better to kindness and softness and empathy. And I mean, I've never managed a group of guys before, so I can't really speak to that. But I would assume that, like, your style changes depending on who's in the room with you as well.
Ella McMahan (31:56)
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, think that like, you know, talking to senior leadership, which is a lot of men, like it does have to obviously be less soft and empathetic, but I, yeah, exactly. But I think that it's like, you know, knowing when to do that code switching and like also knowing like my true essence is like being this like empathetic leader. But I know that when I step into a room of men that are
really data driven and like don't want to hear the soft stuff that you have to be like, okay, I'm like sort of not leveling up because I don't necessarily know that that's leveling up, but like taking on a new persona of like, here's the data. Here's what we're going to do about it.
Emily Jean (32:57)
Hello.
I am curious then, if you're helping people, I know you're kind of constantly helping people navigate these really personal journeys, not to mention this very empathetic leadership quality that you have, how do you make time and space to refill your own cup while serving others?
Ella McMahan (33:04)
really.
Yeah, this is definitely something I've had to learn over the years how to do. ⁓ But a few years ago in 2022, just hit three years, my fiance and I moved to Lake Tahoe from San Francisco. And I, at the time, was like, why would I move to the mountains? Like, I want to be in the city. I want to be doing all the things. And we moved here and I was like so humbled by myself. Like I was like, my gosh, it's like so calm here.
like everyone is relaxed and like the first thing people ask you is like do you like to ski or paddleboard? It's not like well what do do for a job? And like I think that first of all like living in a place where I feel really grounded has helped me so much because I like you know
I wake up and maybe I'm already having a stressful morning because I woke up and I saw a stressful email, but I'm like, okay, but I get to like walk outside into the forest or like go jump in the lake. And like, at least I don't like live on a busy street where I'm like hearing sirens all day. So I think that that that's a big part of it is just like being able to walk outside in the fresh air and jump in the lake or like, you know, go and walk with my dog and like have it be really like undisturbed, like calm environments that I'm in.
Emily Jean (34:17)
Right.
Right. My mom used to live in South Lake Tahoe. Yeah. God, it's cold, girl. It's so cold in the winter.
Ella McMahan (34:35)
I love this.
It is. It is. It does get
really cold. I'm not that big into the outdoor sports in the winter actually, which is kind of funny. Like I'm more of a summer person, but my partner is really into snowboarding. But in the winter, I'm just like, I'm going to read my book like all day and I'm going to go on a walk with my dog and I'm going to to the tree store. Exactly.
Emily Jean (34:54)
Yeah. Good. Yeah. Yeah. Hibernation season. That's what it really
is. Where are you originally from? I'm sorry. I didn't get a chance to ask.
Ella McMahan (35:05)
No, no worries. I'm from Seattle originally. Yeah. Yeah.
Emily Jean (35:07)
Okay, okay, got it, got it. And then you lived
in San Francisco and now Tahoe. Okay, got it. I'm originally from San Luis Obispo. Okay, yeah. It's always fun for me to get to tell somebody who knows like what it is or where it is because rarely, I'm in Sydney now, so rarely do I get the opportunity. Yeah, they're like, cool, okay.
Ella McMahan (35:15)
Nice. beautiful. I love it there. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, they're like, don't know what
that is. No, I love it there.
Emily Jean (35:32)
Okay, well, so I'm curious then if you weren't in marketing, is there another career that you feel like you could pursue that would let you lean into the same passion you have for connection and community?
Ella McMahan (35:44)
Yeah, so I've always felt so called to this idea of a third space that everybody has been talking about for so long at this point.
I was a member of a co-working space when I first moved to San Francisco that sadly no longer exists due to COVID. And it was an all female identifying co-working space. And they had workout classes in the building. had acupuncture once a week that was free for members. had like, you know, Ollie Pop was kind of just coming up at the time, but like there was Ollie Pop in the fridge and you know, there was CocoKind in the
like outdoor shower and like, it was like a dream like a CPG girls dream, right? And like, I don't work in CPG, but I think in another life, I probably would. But I like since being in that space, it's so funny, like I was 23, I wasn't really like building community with these women. They were like all in their 30s. And I was just like, Hey guys, I'm so happy to be here. But since then, I think that I've been like, okay, I really see like
Emily Jean (36:31)
You
you
Ella McMahan (36:49)
what the value was in that. And so I feel so called in some way to either like, I don't know if it's making my own co-working space or if it's like dinner series where I bring people together. Like I don't exactly know. I'm trying to figure it out right now, but I think that like my marketing experience will help me obviously in either of those career paths. But I do think that like community.
because of my leadership background has always like really been at the center of what I've wanted to do. So it's just figuring out, I guess, how to execute on that. Yeah.
Emily Jean (37:19)
Yeah, that's
fun. I've been thinking of joining a co-working space here in Sydney. I've never done it before. It feels a little bit intimidating. I'm gonna have to look up and see if they have any female Elm Lake, because I feel like that would be my total jam.
Ella McMahan (37:25)
should.
Yeah,
they're so fun. And usually they like plan really cool events. And like, yeah, I just it's a really cool way to meet people. again, like I wasn't really like I would like meet these women and I follow the ones to but they weren't like my friends. They were like moms, but it was still really cool.
Emily Jean (37:47)
Yeah. Good.
Okay. So I am, I do want to ask you, I have so many questions. Sorry. I'm saying that, but I do.
Ella McMahan (37:59)
I'm at
the end of my day, so as many questions as you want, feel free.
Emily Jean (38:04)
Okay, good. I've
got you all like lathered up and I'm going to get all your secrets out of you. So I want to know what is one fertility myth that you wish would disappear forever?
Ella McMahan (38:08)
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, I think that it's easy to get pregnant. That is like, I understand why people believe that because like our entire adolescence, we're like in, you know, health class or you're watching Mean Girls and like, don't get pregnant or you're gonna die. Like, and so everyone's thinking like, oh, if I have sex one time in high school, like I will be a statistic. And it's so crazy to learn that like, it's actually pretty like difficult to get pregnant. Like,
Emily Jean (38:34)
Right.
Ella McMahan (38:46)
And it really is like a miracle when it happens and it happens and there's no issues. And so I think that just like people understanding that it's okay to like ask questions and it's okay to like go in for a fertility console even if you don't want to freeze your eggs or you're not ready for kids. Like it's great to know what your baseline is and understand what
like your reproductive system is really even doing so that when you're actually ready to be pregnant, you're not like surprised by all of that.
Emily Jean (39:14)
Right,
right. I love that. feel like my mom is the queen of spreading this rumor as well. She's like, oh, so easy. I'm one of five girls. And she also, she had me when she was 39 and my little sister when she was 41. So I always thought that was like normal. And then I got, yeah, exactly. I got older and I saw the other day, actually, so funny, I saw on Reddit.
Ella McMahan (39:32)
Totally. Totally. Why wouldn't you? Yeah. Yeah.
Emily Jean (39:39)
it was like, somebody was like, can I get pregnant when I'm 40? And the first reply was like, absolutely not. And I was like, It was like 100 % no. So it is funny too how our personal experiences shape those predictions.
Ella McMahan (39:54)
Totally. mean, I had an Uber driver a few months ago and he asked me what I did. He was driving me to the airport and I was like, you know, I'm going on a work trip, whatever. And he's like, so all these celebrities who have babies when they're 50, what's that about? Why can they get pregnant? And I was like, well, they're probably using a donor egg. But he's like, what about Hugh Hefner? And I'm like, okay, let me break down sperm for you.
Emily Jean (40:19)
yeah, let's go back to the basics.
Ella McMahan (40:21)
Yeah, I'm
like, this is my six year old Uber driver. I'm like, let me educate you on something. Yeah. People really, I mean, there's a lot of misinformation about getting pregnant out there, unfortunately.
Emily Jean (40:27)
Love it. Love it.
Right,
right, right. I know, I still, I remember, I feel like I always think of glee. I always think about that. Always think about that. And I think the reason it sticks out in my mind is I'm like, wow, people actually fully have believed that and that fully had been their journey. And that is a crazy thought, yeah.
Ella McMahan (40:42)
Yes, yes in the hot tub. I always think about that.
100%. I
believed that until I was probably like 18. I was like 100 % what they said makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Emily Jean (41:03)
Exactly.
Yeah, it literally is science. it's cleaning up. I'm glad you knew what I was talking about, otherwise that would be really hard to explain. Okay,
so I guess I'm curious then, what is your next like big dream or idea that you are excited about bringing into Springs brand ecosystem?
Ella McMahan (41:28)
Yeah, there's a few things I would say like
My two big things I'm really working towards at spring from just a partnerships level, because I just love partnerships, are partnering with a clothing rental company to give people your free month or week, probably a month, of a clothing rental service because you just get really bloated during the ovarian stimulation process. And so people are like, my jeans don't fit in, I have to go to the office, this sucks. And so I think that's such an easy way to make your patients feel better.
And also on the other side of it, I think that wearables are obviously such a like hot topic across the health industry. I think there's so much research to be done about things like heart rate variability and the quality of your sleep and how those affect your ability to conceive or you your outcomes when you are going through ovarian stimulation and like we just don't know how those are
related if they are at all. And I personally would love to know how they're related. And so I think that like, you I would love for spring to partner with a wearables company to like do that research. And then also, like, you know, bring that research into the zeitgeist to be like, here's what you can do about it. If you if there is some kind of correlation, like here's what you can do about it, you know.
Emily Jean (42:50)
Right,
right. I love that. I especially think that clothing rental is genius. That is actually brilliant. that idea. Yeah. Where do you see fertility conversations as a whole heading in the next five to 10 years?
Ella McMahan (42:56)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully soon.
Yeah, I think it's gonna be hopefully a lot more demystified in the next five to 10 years. think hopefully more people will be talking about their personal experiences. But also I think there probably will be a lot more research on environmental effects on fertility, at least I hope. I think that it's something that...
Even when I started at Spring, think like just as a general statement, the industry was more closed off to like power.
toxins or all of these different things, how do they affect fertility? And I think the more that research comes out about like how they're linked to cancer, like that is a light bulb in like a fertility doctor's mind of like, okay, how could that be affecting my patients if it's like causing cancer, right? So I think that hopefully there's just a lot more research about it and the industry involves in such a way that like everybody is talking about how like
if it's your microbiome or like if it's microplastics there's probably a lot longer on microplastics but like you know I think your microbiome is like one that's a good starting point a lot of research is already being done right so I hope we just continue to like acknowledge the effects of that while not making patients feel guilty for like anything that they did along the way or happened to them along the way but it's like we have this information and like we can empower you with it and here's what we're going to do about it.
Emily Jean (44:24)
love to hear more about that. I would love to see, because also, and I'm not a research expert in this area at all, but I heard actually on the Hot Smart Rich podcast today about how few women are having children or how they're having way less children in America than globally, which I think we kind of knew, but it's like been really confirmed this last year. And I'm so curious how much of that is correlated between the like
Ella McMahan (44:34)
Yeah.
Emily Jean (44:51)
actual ease of having children and that ability. So yeah, it'll be interesting to see how that progresses.
Ella McMahan (44:54)
Yikes.
Same.
Yeah, I know. I thought the same exact thing when I heard it when they were talking about like, it's so hard, like once you have the baby to like, you know, the resources to keep it alive. And I'm like, yeah, and all the people who are trying so hard and can't afford to have IVF, like, yeah, exactly.
Emily Jean (45:11)
Yeah, to even get started.
100%. Do you have any personal interest in the future in building something of your own? You know, a book, podcast, platform, brands.
Ella McMahan (45:25)
Yes, I think like all of the above. ⁓ I'm just trying to figure out what that thing is. I am actually have I started writing a book in college with my mom.
Emily Jean (45:27)
Bye.
Yeah.
Ella McMahan (45:36)
And that's been sort of like sitting on my computer for a long time and I pick it up and then I put it back down. So I think that eventually, hopefully that will happen. but I've also really been, as I was saying, like I love CPG and, I have a really good friend who works in market research in CPG and we like, you know, we'll have two hour long phone calls where we're talking about like, what's going on with this American Eagle campaign and like, what are the new products that people are
putting out. And so we've been batting around this idea of like, do we want to start a podcast where we just like talk about almost like the pop culture news in CPG? Like, it's probably a very limited number of people who would like that would apply to but I don't know, I'm like, that could just be a fun activity for us, even if you'll be listening. So I think maybe that too. We'll see. Yeah. Yeah.
Emily Jean (46:25)
Sounds great. Well, I'm excited to see what you have. That sounds
so much so interesting to me. Okay. Do you want to do some rapid fire before we wrap up? Okay. Perfect. Cause I don't want to take up too much of your time, but okay. First question. What is one piece of fertility advice you wish more people would hear?
Ella McMahan (46:30)
Yeah.
Let's do it.
that it's not weird or embarrassing to go and get an initial consult at a fertility clinic to know what your baseline is.
Emily Jean (46:52)
I like that. I feel like I need to hear that right now. Okay, is there, do you have a favorite non-work ritual that helps keep you grounded?
Ella McMahan (46:55)
Yeah.
Yes, swimming in the lake and sitting on my couch with my fiance and watching YouTube.
Emily Jean (47:09)
Oh cute! So simple, that makes me so happy.
Okay, our last question. What is something people are surprised to learn about you?
Ella McMahan (47:18)
Mm-hmm.
in high school, I really thought I wanted to be a wedding planner. And so I interned and like worked as a wedding planner's assistant for like four years from high school into college. It was really.
Emily Jean (47:31)
That's so much fun. Whoa. You have so many
good options for like alter careers if you ever, you know, that's so cool. Okay, well, thank you so much for joining me, Ella. Where can people connect with you and learn more about you slash spring fertility?
Ella McMahan (47:38)
Totally.
Yeah
Yeah, so you can follow Spring on Instagram, TikTok. Instagram's more of our platform these days, but it's at Spring Fertility. Same for Open Fertility, at Open Fertility. And then I am, my Instagram's not very interesting, but I am posting more on TikTok. I'm at Ella underscore Pennington and happy to like put my name or my email in the show notes if anybody wants to connect.
Emily Jean (48:15)
Yes,
of course. Okay, great. Well, thank you, Ella, so much for coming on. So excited I got to chat to you. Yeah.
Ella McMahan (48:21)
Good.
Me too. Thank you.
Emily Jean (48:23)
Hey.
