The Founder Making Sunscreen That Finally Works for Everyone with Vimbai Midzi of Deeper Beauty
Episode Description
This week, Emily sits down with Vimbai Midzi, the founder of Deeper Beauty, a melanin-first skincare brand born out of frustration, lived experience, and a whole lot of brilliance. Vimbai grew up never finding products that worked for her dark skin — and instead of settling for “making it work,” she built the solution herself.
In this honest, eye-opening conversation, Vimbai shares what it’s really like to build a beauty brand as a woman of color, why “universal” skincare often excludes most of the world, and how she created a sunscreen that works for every skin tone without the white cast, greasiness, or thickness most people hate. She breaks down the inclusivity gap in beauty, the realities behind formulation, and how her global background shaped her approach to representation and product design.
It’s thoughtful. It’s empowering. It’s full of truth every beauty lover and founder needs to hear.
Highlights
The frustration that pushed Vimbai to create her own sunscreen
What the “inclusivity gap” in beauty really looks like behind the scenes
Why so many brands still fail darker skin tones
The shocking lack of real clinical testing on skin of color
How Vimbai blends chemistry, tech, and lived experience to build her formulas
Why sunscreen should never leave a white cast on anyone
The unexpected reasons Dubai is a powerful startup launchpad
How to advocate for yourself when you’re the only person of color in the room
The hardest parts of bringing a beauty product to life (hint: it’s not just the lab work)
Beauty myths Vimbai wants gone forever
Her personal go-to ritual after long days building her brand
Where she wants Deeper Beauty to be in two years
Why this episode matters
If you’ve ever felt unseen by the beauty industry — or wondered why “inclusivity” still feels like a trend instead of the norm — this episode gives real answers. Vimbai’s story is a reminder that representation isn’t optional. It changes the products we use, the habits we form, and the way we feel in our own skin.
For founders, her journey is a masterclass in trusting your lived experience, betting on yourself, and building something the world hasn’t made space for yet.
For beauty lovers, it’s a look at what it actually takes to create products that work for everybody, not just the safest demographic.
For anyone dreaming of starting something meaningful — this conversation will light a fire in you.
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SEO Keywords
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Transcript:
Emily Jean (00:01)
Okay, Midzi of Deeper Beauty. ⁓ my gosh, see? This is what I'm talking about. Midzi of Deeper Beauty, welcome to Founders in Jeans. I'm so excited to have you on today. ⁓ Why don't you tell everyone a little bit about yourself?
Midzi (00:09)
No worries.
Sure. ⁓ So my name is Midzi. I am Zimbabwean. I live in Dubai. I've been here for about eight years. And I'm the founder of Deeper Beauty, which is a melanin-friendly skincare line that's effective for all skin tones. We're also using ⁓ AI skin analysis to allow people to understand more about their skin. And we're really focusing on making sure we're closing the inclusivity gap in the beauty industry. But I'll get into that more.
⁓ I am, I love anything adrenaline. So I like bungee jumping and fun things like that. I also really love anything true crime. So that's, that's, that's me.
Emily Jean (01:07)
And that's why I love it when guests introduce themselves because I could never do that justice. Also, I happen to know, because I glanced at your bio earlier, I've seen it obviously, that you are leaving so much out. you are truly a genius in so many ways and I know we'll get into that. But ⁓ I'm really, really excited to have you on. I'm really excited to have this chat. ⁓ Of course, yeah.
Midzi (01:33)
Thank you.
Emily Jean (01:35)
⁓ well, why don't we just start? have a lot of questions, but why don't we just kind of start with what sparked the original idea for deeper beauty?
Midzi (01:47)
Yeah, so I mean, originally, I think it was frustration. ⁓ I am a dark skinned black woman ⁓ of African descent. ⁓ When I was growing up, there were a lot of issues around if I wanted to find a foundation, for example, ⁓ I was always in between shades. ⁓ I was always trying to balance out the formula versus the effectiveness of it. either it was my shade, but it was too thick or
it was too greasy or it wasn't my shade at all. And so I would have to make it work with other things. you know, color correction wasn't a thing back then. It was just very difficult to find something that worked for me. And I grew up in a lot of different places. So I've been I've experienced what it's like to be in the majority and also in the minority. And I think the fascinating thing about that is that the experience was the same. ⁓
So the beauty industry obviously is kind of concentrated within specific places in terms of where beauty is produced. ⁓ So beauty is often produced in the US, the UK. ⁓ Right now in kind of Korean beauty skincare is very popular at the moment. And so because there's a concentration there, there is a lack of understanding around skin of color more broadly, ⁓ particularly black skin, but also that extends to any kind of skin of color.
And so really it was a frustration. I wanted to make sure that I was really leaning into the gap when it comes to both the availability of the right products, but also the approach. And so when you think about deeper beauty, ⁓ one of the things that we really prioritize is making sure that people of color feel seen. And what that means is creating formulations that actually work for skin of color.
⁓ but not excluding any other skin tone as well. And so really what I've created is a universal product. first product is a, is a sunscreen, which we'll talk about later. But I think the biggest thing for me was I started this because it. I was frustrated. I was frustrated. ⁓ and I wanted better and I thought I deserved better. ⁓ and so that's what I did. I went and I created something that hopefully more people can enjoy.
Emily Jean (04:00)
Right. think it's such a brilliant mission, not only from a marketing standpoint of things, but also it just makes so much sense. It's like, why have we not had that sooner? That's the part that kind of blows me away constantly. ⁓ But I know that you
Midzi (04:24)
Hmm.
Emily Jean (04:28)
I know that you have both a background in cosmetic chemistry as well as tech strategy, so I'm curious what kind of came first for you there.
Midzi (04:37)
Yeah, I mean, I was thinking about this and my career has been very meandering. And I hope when I say this, hopefully it gives people courage who haven't had a straight kind of career path that they can do whatever they want to really. I started off as a political journalist ⁓ way back when, when I was much younger. And I was doing journalism in Southern Africa, so primarily South Africa, Zimbabwe.
And then I moved to the UK. I moved to Scotland specifically. I did my masters there. I focused a lot on developmental economics. And so I kind of mirrored the, I kind of merged the two worlds of my experience in political journalism, but also in understanding the kind of structures of the world within the development sector. So development sector being anything UN, Red Cross, et cetera, related and how economies evolve, particularly economies that we're struggling.
And so when I moved to Dubai, I worked with a communications agency and I did a lot of behavioral economics programming ⁓ with the UN ⁓ Red Cross, know, Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation or the Gates Foundation as it is now. ⁓ And I really learned what it was like to, I suppose, center people's voices who weren't centered before, ⁓ but also figure out how to make sure that
things were being more efficient for them. And so for example, ⁓ I worked on programming around polio vaccination in Afghanistan, which was one of the only places that polio was still endemic ⁓ at that point. And it was really important that we got the messaging right. It was important that we understood the economics of that particular community and why they weren't vaccinating their kids. And so the underlying kind of ⁓ question in my career has been why.
⁓ and how do we make things better for people who are otherwise vulnerable, otherwise excluded. ⁓ And so that's been a running thread, at least throughout my career. When I then joined tech, it was really in the capacity of taking my understanding around everything that I had done before in the developmental world and bringing that to the tech world and understanding, okay, how do we actually make societies better with tech? And so...
I then launched ⁓ one of first ⁓ Tech for Good products that we had at Kareem, which was actually the region's first unicorn. ⁓ Huge news, obviously, for the Middle East. There wasn't a unicorn before. It was going up against a giant ⁓ being Uber. Uber ended up acquiring it. ⁓ And I went through that journey with the company, which was a fascinating, fun, grueling. Anyone who works in tech will tell you that it's incredibly tiring.
but also asks a lot of you, which means you're constantly leveling up. And so I then helped build ⁓ our fundraising ⁓ mini app, which sits on the app. ⁓ And basically what we did was we partnered with different charities, but there's a lot of kind of back work around compliance and how do you make sure you're creating actual change and raising funds for the right kinds of organizations and how do you raise awareness about things like that.
this region is particularly quite fractured when it comes to different kinds of socio and political issues as well. What do you focus on? Is it water supply? Is it women's empowerment? It could be anything, right? ⁓ And so that journey ⁓ really then taught me about what it is to kind of appeal to different customer segments and getting a customer to understand what it is they're buying into, particularly when it's emotional, right? ⁓ I think it's one thing if we're delivering
a pizza to you. It's another thing if you're buying into something that you truly believe in and offering your money as a result. And so that was really a huge learning curve for me. We then I then kind of moved into the groceries vertical, which is great. And I worked with the team there to help launch our Abu Dhabi groceries offering and it's just grocery delivery, but we owned our own dark stores.
Dock stores are just ⁓ stores that you can't really shop in. It's more like warehouses, ⁓ which is very kind of retail heavy. And anyone who's worked in that space, it's incredibly complicated. The logistics around it is very difficult. Getting people to your app ⁓ just to buy something is very difficult, particularly in this region. It's very competitive. There's a lot of different platforms that offer that kind of thing.
Dubai is the city of convenience. And so people tend to want everything immediately. ⁓ I could order something now and I'll get it in 10 minutes. And that's kind of the expectation of the customer. And so we had to continuously kind of keep up with that. It was a combination of that on offline marketing, et cetera. So really, like I've had a meandering career. ⁓ It's been a little bit of everything. ⁓ But while I was at Kenneam,
I kind of went back to my first love, which is always chemistry, actually. ⁓ And I never pursued it, but I thought, you know, I'm at this job, I have the means, I might as well study something that is related to what I want to do later on. And so I studied ⁓ cosmetic science and that was really the foray into, so clearly the industry is not working particularly well for people who look like me.
and formulations aren't particularly geared towards what my skin type is and how do I start to close that gap. So for me, it's been my entire thread throughout my career has been how do I make people and everybody feel more seen and more comfortable and more empowered. ⁓ And I think this was just one way of doing it.
Emily Jean (10:30)
Right. It's so interesting for me because I obviously am a white woman, so never really had to think about going into a drugstore and being able to find makeup like in any aisle. So like as I'm sitting here listening to it, I'm like, it sounds so incredibly frustrating not being able to have that. And then, you know, I think too, we see these kind of
trends come about where a lot of beauty lines for a while were pushing more diverse range. ⁓ And I think a lot of people were getting behind that, but then looking closer, it was like, how diverse is it really? And how many skin tones was it really encapsulating? So I want to ask you, guess, what is the inclusivity gap in beauty and why has it taken so long to address?
Midzi (11:29)
Yeah, it's a great question. So the inclusivity gap is really the lack of options when it comes to the beauty industry in terms of who gets the most options for their particular skin type. ⁓ And so what you'll find is that there's a huge gap in terms of what kinds of products work for lighter skin tones versus what works for darker skin tones. And that
gap is particularly insidious because I think the beauty industry has two main problems. The one is that there isn't a lot of research and that I mean that clinical trials and things like that around darker skin tones and that research allows for innovation, right? You can only know what to create next if you know what some of the problems are and there just hasn't been enough research and there was
data around 2023 and 2024 about how only 16 % of the entirety of clinical trials that were done in the UK and the US were done on skin of color. ⁓ Which is insane. 16 % is a tiny percentage. And it's no wonder that the industry looks this way. And I think if you look at the second kind of issue is around, I suppose, the mysticism around the beauty industry and how
there is a lot of obviously, you know, science and chemistry behind it. It's quite a complicated thing to do to create things that work on skin. And so there is that knowledge gap, right, between the people who are creating and the people who are consuming. ⁓ And I think that doesn't help. I think what we have is a world where people who look like me tend to feel excluded and we tend to find other ways or we tend to make excuses for
quite frankly, companies that are massive, companies that are worth billions of dollars, ⁓ that just aren't catering to the needs of people that make up the majority of the world. Which again, as you said, it's a little crazy that it's 2025 and we're talking about this. And so I think the root cause, if I were to really be honest, is a kind of general...
trend of racism that kind of goes all the way back to kind of medical racism. And that's really at the root on the foundation that doesn't always manifest in today's world. But I think it's been a hangover and it's kind of carried on into the way that people understand darker skin tones, the way that people understand which audiences are going to be their best buyers ⁓ or people who are actually going to kind of make them money. ⁓ And so
What you end up with is this, is a world where there's kind of two different tracks. And one track is, we are universal, but universal doesn't actually mean me. And that's been the most frustrating part of it. So I think if you look at inclusivity, it has to be from the place of how do we make as many people feel included as possible? And that means tailoring our formulations and our products to do exactly that.
Emily Jean (14:43)
Right. I think too, it's crazy on, it just seems like the bare minimum. It's like, what do mean that this makeup couldn't touch so many different people in so many different places of their life? That is the part that really blows my mind. Not only from, it just seems like a purely bad business strategy alone. It just seems like a lot can tell it is.
Midzi (14:58)
Yeah.
I agree.
Yeah, I agree. ⁓ I think part of it is everybody has blind spots. And I think the way that the world is structured, to go back to my knowledge around political structures and things like that, I think we live in a world where there is a blind spot when it comes to people of color. And I think
you know, it's not often, it's very well-meaning people. It's not often kind of driven from a place of hate. I think it's just that we live in a world where we haven't come to a place where enough people have been included in the conversation, have been included in the decision-making. ⁓ And part of that means people like me are coming into the industry to kind of set a different precedent. ⁓ Because when I'm in the room, I will tell you that actually,
the thing that you think works universally, it doesn't. When I put it on my skin, it looks different. ⁓ And oftentimes, I mean, you'll hear this all the time, they just don't test on darker skin, which is fascinating, right? We keep seeing videos of influencers trying different products, for example, and they'll say, this is the darkest shade from X brand. And it's like, that's the darkest shade. Like, that's three shades lighter than me, and I'm not even the darkest person in the world, right? So it's kind of like...
Did you try? Did you try? Did you make an effort? And I think that's what it is. It does take effort. It takes intentionality. It takes stepping outside of what is your norm and understanding the way that you see the world and the lens through which you see the world. And then saying, OK, well, this is where my understanding stops. And how do I bring in more people who might understand a different side of it? ⁓ So I think.
to be inclusive and to chase inclusivity is to inherently make an effort. And I think effort obviously equals money. ⁓ And I can understand the limitations because I know that the formulation process is a complex one and it's an expensive one. But that's not an excuse. I think if you, part of the reason why I started with skincare and not with color cosmetics,
is because it is a little bit more accessible. I'm bootstrapping my business. There's no way that I could create 40 different shades of makeup ⁓ at the moment. It's definitely where I want to be in the future, but it is very capital intensive. And it takes time. takes testing, but that is what it takes to claim to be inclusive. cannot then, if you're going to do that with color cosmetics, just be prepared to put in the work. That's all I'm saying.
Emily Jean (18:01)
so many questions for you.
Midzi (18:03)
Please.
Emily Jean (18:07)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, there's a concept, actually I was reading about this the other day, that's like when you create, this is not the exact, not a very good comparison maybe, but like when you create systems that help disabled people, for example, usually it helps everybody else as well, ⁓ but companies don't consider that when they're building whatever it may be.
Midzi (18:33)
Yeah. Yeah.
Emily Jean (18:35)
⁓ And I thought that's brilliant. Also, another point they said ⁓ was that when you, almost everybody will end up disabled if they're lucky enough to at some point in their life as they get older. I think also it's like, hopefully ⁓ you will have people in your life who are not gonna have the same skin color as you. Like that's ideal in my opinion. So why would you not advocate for a more diverse?
Midzi (18:59)
Hmm.
Emily Jean (19:04)
of anything, but especially as it applies to skincare slash makeup, that like it could benefit you in your life and so many others. So anyways, I just think that that, yeah.
Midzi (19:17)
Yeah, yeah, no, I think you're right. think the, people often ask me or when they talk about my brand, they say it's a niche brand. And while I understand the thinking behind that, it kind of makes me recoil slightly because it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be. it's niche in my approach in the sense that it's not the approach that every other brand would take, but it's not niche in its application.
And so I think there's, there's a big difference. And if you talk about, I'm just going to go into sunscreen if that's, that's okay. I think the, so, so when I made my product, there were two things to consider. One was, is it going to give people the protection that they need? I E are you protected from the sun from UVA and UVB? ⁓ raise that's the bare minimum. The second is, it aesthetically pleasing? And I think the.
in the past, the thinking has been, it protect you? Whether it's aesthetically pleasing was like, like very low down on the list. And I can understand that that question may sound like it's frivolous, but it's not in a world where you're trying to create a habit for people to constantly use sun care, right? You're not going to protect yourself against the sun with a product that makes you look crazy. It's just not going to happen. So if I want people to continue to use sunscreen,
then I'm going to make sure that it looks good on their skin. And I think that is to your point about how sometimes when you solve a problem for people who are at the margins, you end up including everybody. It's so important because when I was at my first ever market, I had a little booth and I was exhibiting and people would pass by and ask me questions about my brand. And
⁓ One of the things that I used to worry about was my positioning because I tagline is melanin deserves more and somebody said to me way back when they said well You're just gonna include exclude all the white people. I Said maybe okay. I let it go and I said, okay But it was something that was in the back of my mind of like, okay I might like is this the right positioning like am I just like beating myself in the foot because I didn't want that to be the case But I also knew what I was what the ethos ethos was behind it
The funny thing is, at this booth, my first five customers were all white. And the same thing came from them, which was, I just don't like how sunscreen feels. My problem is not the white cast, because yeah, I might have a bit of a white cast, but usually it kind of blends in after a few minutes and I can kind of get on with my day. ⁓ But I don't like how greasy it is. I don't like how sticky it is.
I don't like how it feels like I've put like paste on my face. ⁓ I want it to be lightweight. And so inadvertently what I did was I created a product that allows everybody to address each pain point that they have. The biggest pain point I had was a white cast. But the biggest pain points that other people have is greasiness or it's too sticky or
I just don't like the way it smells. ⁓ And so there were all these different points that I took into consideration when it comes to inclusivity. I had somebody come to me who said they had sensitive skin, for example. really could just couldn't, had sensitive skin. They reacted to a lot of different things and my product addressed that. It's also for sensitive skin. It's also for acne prone skin. And so actually when you look at inclusivity, what I've tried to do is make it inclusive, not just for tone, but also for texture.
i.e. do you have sensitive skin, but also for type as well. Do you have dry skin? Do you have normal skin? Is it oily as a combination? And I think that kind of encompassing kind of area of inclusivity is just really important for me because I've widened the net. I haven't kind of bottlenecked it in the sense and said, it's only for these people. No, I may have made it so that it's comfortable for these people, but actually in application,
It works for everybody.
Emily Jean (23:39)
I also think sunscreen too is so specific because it's a bit of a, maybe familial is the right, wrong word, but like you share it with people. Like you're at the beach and you say, hey, do you need to borrow this? Like, you know, so it totally makes sense to me that that would be a product that should be as inclusive as possible, theoretically all products, but a great place to start.
Midzi (23:53)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
for us to understand.
Emily Jean (24:08)
Yeah, I actually, my cousin Joseph, he's black and he has really dark skin and he can't, he doesn't use a very popular brand of sunscreen in the States ⁓ because it has a cast ⁓ and my other cousin, Jesse is really allergic to it as well. So then it becomes one of those things that when you go down to the beach, I'm not going to consider even buying that brand anymore because why would I, if I know I can't pass it to my cousin when they need it.
Midzi (24:37)
Hmm.
Emily Jean (24:38)
But so anyways, I could talk about that forever, specifically about sunscreen. I'm curious. I want to focus in on this because it's kind of a bit unique. So why start in the GCC market? And how are you planning to expand beyond that?
Midzi (25:01)
Yeah, so if you look at the beauty industry widely, in terms of the GCC, it's a huge, ⁓ huge industry here. People take their skincare, their health, their wellness very seriously, particularly in this region, particularly in the UAE, which is where I'm based. And it is an incredible place to build. One, because the environment allows for it. Corporate taxes is relatively low.
⁓ the barrier of entry in terms of getting your licensing, your registration and things like that is also relatively low. ⁓ There is no, there's not a lot of barriers in terms of starting something. ⁓ I found an incredibly ⁓ competent lab. It's a French lab that has a ⁓ Middle Eastern headquarters here. ⁓ And so I've worked with different chemists from that lab that are here to help me bring this to life. And I think the
the importance of being able to have that access was really ⁓ integral in terms of my decision of where I was going to begin. But also this region, I mean, I live in one of the sunniest places in the world. It is, it's pretty much sunny every day. It is the best place to consider what the sun can do to your skin because it is so relentless. And so it made sense.
to have a sunscreen that comes from a place like this, ⁓ that has this kind of climate, ⁓ that can withstand this kind of heat. And so it was partially that. I think also Dubai has been such a huge part of my journey ⁓ in terms of career-wise, in terms of what I've been able to do for myself personally. ⁓ And so it felt right to start here.
And the opportunity within this particular industry is huge. So I definitely want to be able to make sure that I'm making my mark within the industry in the region. My plan in terms of expansion, I definitely, I'm starting off with the UAE. Saudi is going to be my next market. I'm looking at Qatar, I'm looking at Kuwait. But then I'd love to be able to explore the EU, different parts of Africa as well.
⁓ I think there's a lot of opportunity within those markets as well. it's definitely right now a local brand and in the next year will hopefully be at least a regional and partially international.
Emily Jean (27:35)
I love that goal. I think that's very realistic.
Midzi (27:38)
I mean, well, I mean, I hope
so.
Emily Jean (27:45)
So where you're sitting for entrepreneurs listening to this and they're like, have a product. I'm ready to go to market. Do you recommend then starting where you're starting GCC?
Midzi (27:56)
100%. I think there's, if I were to think about all of the things that I've had to go through, the steps of just getting this product to market, I can guarantee if I was in any other place, it would have taken me twice as long, twice as long, twice as much money, if not three times more. ⁓ There is something that this country particularly has gotten right when it comes to
being a place that enables expats to get a project, a business off the ground. There's a lot of support here, but it's also the kind of place where, I mean, the majority of us are expats. And so when I go into different communities and networking groups for different entrepreneurs, it's a very supportive environment. There isn't a lot of gatekeeping. So I love to say to people, like, you're always only like,
two or three people removed from the person you actually want to speak to. It's a big enough, but also small enough place that people tend to know each other. And so if you're plugged into the right networking groups, you can honestly gain access to spaces that you otherwise wouldn't have. And it's incredible because everyone has such a spirit of like sharing information, sharing knowledge. And so it's a very supportive environment. I don't feel like I've been
disadvantaged in that way at all. And I think that's really why I think this place is a beautiful place to build a business.
Emily Jean (29:31)
Yeah, that's good to know. I feel like Dubai's been kind of trending a little bit in the entrepreneurship space. And I think, I think like popular things are popular for a reason. Like, you know, usually. Okay, well, I kind of want to get into the science a little bit behind things. So I want to talk to you.
Midzi (29:44)
Yeah, exactly. ⁓
Emily Jean (29:58)
What does inclusive formulation science actually mean in practice? And I'm sure that's a little bit of a big question.
Midzi (30:08)
No, it's exactly why ⁓ Deeper exists. So in the simplest form, if I were to take one thing as an example, so my sunscreen has a range of different ingredients. If you look at what it is, it's a hybrid sunscreen, know, chemical and mineral UV blockers. Those are just ingredients. ⁓ And
What that means is you need to think about what those UV blockers do on your actual skin. So if you think about sunscreen and how popular it used to be way back when, it was often mineral sunscreen. And mineral sunscreen has zinc oxide and it has titanium dioxide as the main UV blockers. Those two ingredients are white. They'll always just the white, the white color, ⁓ which means they're very difficult to mix with anything else.
to make it look less white. And even if you try and mix it, ⁓ you could end up looking a little gray or a little purple, depending on what else you put into the formulation. Now, there are other ways to mask that. So you'll have some brands that will have a mineral sunscreen that is tinted. And the tint kind of helps if you've really mixed the colors well.
it helps to create or reduce that white cast that is inevitably created by titanium dioxide and zinc oxide. Now, if you look at Chemical Sunscreen, it has ⁓ what they call modern UV filters. Modern is a bit of a misnomer. They were created in the late 90s, early 2000s, mostly from the EU. But what they did is they disrupted this idea that you could only use zinc oxide and titanium dioxide to protect yourself from UV rays.
And what they did is they extended the protection ⁓ from UVA rays. So UV split into two things. UVB is responsible mainly for burning. It's also responsible for this new research that's come out that says that it's also responsible for aging and things like that, but mainly for burning. So if you get a sunburn, it's usually UVB. UVA rays are responsible for aging and for hyperpigmentation.
which is obviously a concern of a lot of people of color is hyperpigmentation, having different tones of brown across your skin, which is a result of sun damage. ⁓ Now, if you look at the way that these filters work, ⁓ UVA protection and UVB protection combined together gives you a broad spectrum. So when you see the label broad spectrum, it just means that you're protected against UVB, which is burning more broadly.
and UVA, which is aging. It's an easy way to kind of remember the two. And that gives you a full coverage, right? And then you have the sun protection factor. Is it SPF 30? Is it 50, et cetera? Anything 30 and above is what's recommended in terms of having the best kind of protection. My sunscreen is SPF 50 for that extra bit of protection as well. Now, if we then take the second layer of...
How do you make sure that it's as inclusive as possible? So what I've done is I've said, I'm going to use less of the zinc oxide and titanium dioxide. So I do have titanium dioxide, but I have it at a low concentration. And the higher concentration is all of the UV filters that are chemical based. And so my sunscreen is really a hybrid. It's a hybrid between mineral and chemical sunscreen. Add on to that and make sure that it is as inclusive as possible.
skin of color tends to have a lot of transepidermal water loss, which means that we don't retain as much water. So we tend to get drier quickly, basically. Which is why a lot of black people say, you look ashy today because you haven't put on any lotion. You've just come out of the shower, you don't put on any lotion, you look ashy. And so to avoid that, we wear lotion all the time. ⁓ Now, what we've done to make sure that we...
control for that is we've added in Shea and Jojoba, which are two ingredients that are really helpful, not just in moisturization, but also in barrier boosting. So your skin barrier is what, if that skin barrier is healthy, that's what gives you that kind of glow. You don't look sick or sickly, and your skin is actually healthy. Whether it looks a certain way is a different topic, but it's actually healthy.
And so we've made sure that the ingredients are helping you, one, moisturize more, two, make sure that your barrier is being boosted as well. We also have sodium hyaluronate, which is a derivative of hyaluronic acid, which is super popular in the skincare industry at the moment. Definitely something that is used for moisturization. But sodium hyaluronate has smaller molecules, which means it penetrates your skin even deeper. And so we've focused on something that, yes, protects you from the sun.
comprehensively UVA and UVB, but also considers the very specific factors around people of color's skin and how it's built. And therefore, we create something that allows it to be more moisturizing, that allows it to also boost your skin barrier as well. And so it sounds like pretty obvious. ⁓ It sounds like one of those things where any brand should be thinking about that. But actually, it's that one extra step where it's like,
you could put any ingredient. mean, we could have not put those ingredients in and it would have worked just as well, but it wouldn't have had that extra layer of consideration when it comes to skin of color and what it goes through. so inclusivity science is just saying, hey, this group of people, they tend to have this kind of condition, right? Now that if we put in this ingredient, then we're actually helping them deal with that particular condition.
So my sunscreen as well is also UVA. It has the highest level of UVA protection. ⁓ One of the tests that does that is from Japan. It is the PA factor. So if you've seen like PA with some pluses next to it, I have PA4 pluses, which is the highest level of UVA protection. Again, UVA causes hyperpigmentation. Hyperpigmentation is dominantly experienced by people of color. And so...
It's all these tiny little details that you have to add in to make sure that people can see that you've taken the time and the consideration to make their skin compatible with your formulation. So yeah, that's inclusivity science. It's more complex than this, but this is the kind of simple way of understanding how you make sure that you're being intentional with your formulation so that it matters to people who otherwise have not been catered to.
Emily Jean (37:02)
You are a genius. Like that is, I'm like, I'm like trying to wrap that. it sounds simple to you in my head. I'm like, that's a lot. That's a lot girl. That's a, I'm trying to, trying to keep up with all of that.
Midzi (37:04)
I am not.
Yeah, it's
funny that you say that because I mean, to me, it's like, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. But I don't think I think that when you are making a any kind of product, you have a lot of considerations, right? There's a lot of things that you need to to make sure you're doing well. There's a lot of regulations you have to adhere to, etc. So ⁓
there's a lot that goes into why you've added this ingredient into this particular formula. And so I can understand from a kind of logical perspective where you're maybe the last thing you're thinking about is how does this work particularly for skin of color? And I think that's where the failure of the industry is, where it's like, we already have 20 million things to consider before we, you know, create this product. We're probably not going to think about that.
people of color because it's just not really, you know, on our radar, which, you know, is upsetting, but I can also understand it. And so I think it takes that person in the room who's going to say, it's not enough. It's not enough that you've made something that protects me against the sun. What you need to do is make sure that I'm going to wear it and that a lot of people are going to wear it. And aside from that, you're also considering what kind of skin, how my skin is built to make sure
that people like me are going to use it not just because it's good for my skin and protecting me from the sun, but because it feels good. It feels good and it does all those other things that I want something that I put on my skin to do. And so oftentimes what I'll get from people is, I use your sunscreen as a moisturizer. And I'm like, yeah, that was the point. The point is that you don't have a separate product. You just have one that you put on that's gonna protect you from the skin, but that also doesn't make you look ashy.
Emily Jean (39:13)
Right. Right.
Midzi (39:14)
Simple as that.
Emily Jean (39:17)
Yeah, that's a great point. That's a really interesting point too. I'm curious then considering, like as you just said, you have a list of a bajillion things you're kind of ticking off and handling, managing all at once. What has been the most difficult part so far of bringing this lab work into a product that people actually want to use?
Midzi (39:42)
I think it's been...
I think it's been explaining, and I say this, you the chemists that I work with are incredible, but even they aren't trained to think about skin of color. And oftentimes not experienced in making things that are supposed to work for skin of color. And so the iterations, I went through four or five different iterations before I got the final formula that I have now. And the first one was completely off.
just like completely, it left a white cast and they were surprised that it left a white cast. And I said, and I had said to them, listen, at this concentration of this particular ingredient, I'm not sure this is gonna work out. And they said, no, it will. And I said, okay, let's try it out. And it didn't work. And it was surprising because if you're not constantly testing on darker skin, you don't realize how bad it's going to look until you actually put it on somebody's skin.
And oftentimes, a lot of people in labs don't have human subjects. They'll have these different color squares of different kinds of skin tones. And so they'll test based on that. But that's not enough. Skin operates very differently from whatever kind of test thing that you have. And so they're just not exposed to it. So I think the most difficult thing was having the conversation of, yes.
I understand where you're coming from. know you've made sunscreen a million times, but let me explain that this is not going to work for this particular subset of people. ⁓ And what we're trying to do is make sure that it really works for everybody, all the way from Scandinavia to South Sudan, right, and everything in between. ⁓ And I think that was the most difficult part. ⁓ The second thing was... ⁓
I guess the storytelling around it. I hate making content. hate, like I, yeah, the world that we live in now requires, because I'm a founder led brand, it requires that I show up consistently and that I talk consistently about my brand, which I love doing.
But I also these days when I also just kind of want to sit in my pajamas and not really speak to anyone or talk about anything at all. And so I think the second hardest part wasn't actually the formulation. It was like, how am going to sell this thing? ⁓ You know, how do I make money off of this? How do I make sure that I've accounted for all of my cost of goods? And like, what do I do in terms of distribution? And where do I sell it? Do I just do my website? Do I go on an e-commerce platform? it how?
Viable is retail. Obviously Sephora is my North Star. Actually, I don't know if they dropped Huda. They dropped Huda Beauty. I don't know. I think we're still waiting for the... But I'm still waiting for the verdict. But yeah, if they drop Huda, then they're not my North Star. But I think, you know, prior to all of this, Sephora was my North Star. ⁓
Emily Jean (42:41)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Midzi (42:56)
But that's a huge undertaking and I'm, know, millions of dollars of capital that often goes into that. And so it's the creation of the formula, knowing that I know that this is going to be good for a universal spectrum of shades and types and textures. But then it's, okay, but how do I actually get this to market? That's a huge kind of area that I'm still working on as a business owner, yeah.
Emily Jean (43:25)
in a lot of responsibility, like, especially, you know, it's like you're kind of, it sounds like to me, you can correct me if I'm wrong, obviously, but sounds like you're a little bit of like, ⁓ expected to be a spokesperson for something that should be quite obvious in many ways. Yeah.
Midzi (43:29)
Yeah.
Yes, yeah, it's I think that potentially the most disheartening part about it ⁓ is how obvious this seems to me ⁓ and to so many people of color, but not to everybody else. And so I, in the beginning, I thought, okay, I'm just gonna go, I would do, you know, pitches at different events and networking and things like that and tell people about my business and
Emily Jean (43:57)
Mm.
Midzi (44:13)
And everyone's eyes would light up and they would say, ⁓ I've never thought about it. And I would be like, You've never thought about this? It consumes my thoughts every day. But it's fascinating because I also then realized that I live in this body. And so of course I think about it. Of course it's obvious to me.
But I've so I've had to kind of explain almost over explain myself in many scenarios where like I thought this was obvious. But it's not. It's not. it's and it in many ways it breaks my heart. But in a lot of ways I see the opportunity to educate and I see the opportunity to change people's behavior. And I think, you know, if you think about innovation within this space.
Emily Jean (44:51)
Right.
Midzi (45:10)
Innovation is not just creating something new, it's changing a behavior, it's creating something that people can actually use to change something within their lives. And that's hopefully what I'm contributing to. I'm not the only person of color who's building a beauty brand in the world. There's so many of them that I have so much respect for. And it takes time, it takes intention, but it also means that we're slowly changing the way that beauty operates and the way that people behave and how they buy and...
what they invest in. So hopefully that's the outcome of all of the work that I'm doing.
Emily Jean (45:47)
Right.
Yeah, I think that's a very powerful sentiment. ⁓ I don't want to take up too much of your time. I want to be cognizant of your time.
Midzi (46:03)
Can you
keep the questions? I blocked off. said, listen, I'm going to block off like a good two hours because I got the sense. was like, think Emily likes to yap. So let me just like, yeah, there we go.
Emily Jean (46:08)
Okay, perfect.
Yeah, Okay,
good, good. And I'm not gonna, okay, good. Then I won't wrap up yet. Perfect. I'm so excited to hear that. ⁓ Good, because I really wanted to talk to you about AI in particular. And I know that's a bit of a change in subject, but yeah, so I want to, you mentioned AI briefly there at the beginning. ⁓ I kind of want to see, first I want to start with an overview.
Midzi (46:31)
Yeah.
Emily Jean (46:42)
How do you see AI transforming how we approach to skincare in the next five to 10 years?
Midzi (46:49)
Yeah, yeah. So I think the first thing I'll say is I'll be cognizant of the fact that AI is very complex at the moment. I think it has both very positive and very negative sentiments. We are in a place of, I think, change in the sense that we're so early in the AI journey in general. I know it doesn't feel that way, but honestly, we really are.
And there's so much more room for growth and where that goes is slightly dicey at the moment. ⁓ But if I were to look at the context of kind of AI within beauty, I think if you look at AI and what it's been able to do around consumer habits, it's really been able to personalize the journeys of different people, whether that's you buying a pair of jeans ⁓ or whether it's something else. And I think when you look at skincare, so one of the things that I'm
kind building at the moment is a skincare analysis tool. And basically, you upload a photo of your face or scan your face and it tells you you have dry patches here or hyperpigmentation there and spits out a routine that works for you specifically based on some of the questions that you've answered as well. What kind of habits do you have? How much do you sleep?
What kind of diet do you have? ⁓ And all of these different concerns that you may have, is it fine lines, is it oily skin, et cetera. And so you have a of, you know, a report that then tells you, here's what you can do according to your specific skin type. And here are some products that we think would work for you. The second layer is then, okay, do you actually want to see a dermatologist? And here are some dermatologists that we would recommend, particularly...
for you and your skin tone because you are a person of color, here is a dermatologist who has worked on other people who are of color as well. And so what we're trying to do is build that pipeline as well. ⁓ So it's a kind of B2C, B2B offering in that sense. ⁓ But really what we've done, and I think that that kind of underpins a lot of this is AI models will be as good as how you train them, right? And so...
What we've done is really focus on making sure we're training the model with images of people of color. And that's actually a huge gap within the dermatology space in general. ⁓ was research that came out recently about how it was about 8 % of the images in the medical journals that were being used in schools, by the way. Like this is people actually becoming dermatologists, ⁓ were people of color. And I've been in situations where
I mean, this happened to me a few years ago, actually. I got misdiagnosed. I was told I had eczema. I didn't have eczema. I just had contact dermatitis, which actually is quite mild. And you can kind of treat that pretty well and easily. Eczema is kind of lifelong in that sense. It's quite rare for you to pick it up at this age. It would have been very, very rare. It usually happens early on in your life. And so I kind of questioned it and thought,
this is a bit strange. But then when you realize that a lot of people haven't been trained on what eczema actually looks like on darker skin tones, they may mistake it for something else. And then they may not run the test that they should be running. And so these issues, they permeate into every single layer of my existence. And so I think the biggest thing for us was making sure that we continuously were training it on
⁓ the kinds of conditions that show up on different, on a very wide range of skin tones. And that hopefully then creates a more accurate result, which then allows you to then go off and create a routine that makes sense for you. And so we're still in the kind of midst of building it. Anybody who's built a product, just like, yeah, bane of anyone's existence, because there's always something that goes wrong and always something that needs fixing.
⁓ But we'll be rolling out the MVP next month and getting a few people to do the beta testing. But I'm excited because I think the opportunity for people to understand more about their skin, to understand what it is their skin needs, particularly people of color who have not necessarily been part of the conversation, I think is huge. And I think the personalized nature of it ⁓ is really important as well because skin is so personal.
What works for me doesn't work for somebody else, even of the same shade, even of the same texture. And so I think it's really important that we take all of these holistic things into consideration. The questionnaire is there for a reason, right? I think our lifestyle habits, et cetera, all of that contributes to what your skin looks like. And so a holistic view of wellness that is also inclusive, I think is made in part possible through the use of AI.
Emily Jean (51:50)
Yeah. You're intersecting AI with beauty in a very, in my opinion, unique way. I mean, I'm not the biggest expert on how AI is being used in beauty right now. ⁓ I want to know, guess, I know that you've worked in both tech, media, public, XYZ. How has that kind of multidisciplinary approach shaped how you're running your company now?
Midzi (52:14)
Yeah, I would say the biggest thing is I don't have any limiting beliefs. ⁓ I think that comes from the fact that I've worked on so many things ⁓ and the fact that I've failed so many times on those many different things. ⁓ I don't think if I had started this business, ⁓
a few years ago, I don't think I would have the confidence that I have now. I think that the combination of all of the different paths that I've walked in terms of my career has allowed me to have multiple skill sets, but it's also allowed me to look under the hood of a lot of things that seemingly, you know, people don't look under the hood of, which also means I'm exposed to people who work on those things, which also means I'm exposed to how
they're not smarter than me. The more you know, right? The more you know, the more you meet people, the more you sit in these boardrooms with VPs of whatever and senior directors of whatever, you start to realize they don't, they're not smarter than you. ⁓ They just lived longer. They just lived longer.
Emily Jean (53:18)
Right.
Right, right.
Midzi (53:41)
They've had more time, and this man is 47, right? He's had more time to fail. He's had more time to figure things out. He's had more time to change direction ⁓ and to get advice and mentorship and all of these things that contribute to your career success. And so I think me being in different places has not just given me different skills, which also comes in handy, right? The fact that I can write well, the fact that I can analyze data, the fact that I...
Emily Jean (53:45)
Right.
Midzi (54:10)
have knowledge around products and like all of those different things contribute to where I am now. But the most important thing is that they're not smarter than me. That's my takeaway. My takeaway is, yeah, of course I can do this. Like, cause why not? If they can do it, why can't I do it? You know? And if I don't know something, I can learn it because that's what I've done my entire career. If I didn't know something, I was forced to learn it.
Emily Jean (54:15)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yes. ⁓
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Right.
Right.
Midzi (54:41)
And that I think has been the greatest gift, to be honest. ⁓ I don't think I'm particularly smart. I think I just read a lot and I just learn things. ⁓ And that's how you get ahead, in my opinion, and by being open and open to being in diverse places ⁓ and here and me sitting with an engineer and understanding only about 2 % of what he was saying.
Emily Jean (54:55)
Right. Right.
Midzi (55:06)
⁓ and then going back and asking questions and figuring things out and understand, okay, this is how this particular thing works. And here is the logic behind this particular AI model. And how do we translate that to the average person? Well, this is how you communicate it just because this is what it looks like on the backend. Doesn't mean that's what it looks like on the front end. Right. So it's all of these different things that I've created. think, you know, my career as it is now, but yeah, the biggest thing is man, like I don't have any self.
Limiting beliefs because because what because what's the worst that's gonna happen? You know, mean I'm just that Life is short. I fish you know, so yeah
Emily Jean (55:51)
I really relate to this. I really, really relate to this. was actually, the other day, I was chatting to, I have a friend who just started a few months ago. He started like an AI consulting company and it's going very well. He has a bunch of big clients, whatever. But he and his roommate has been kind of his advisor, for lack of a better word, in like the legal space, whatever. And I...
have got to see him grow this from top to bottom over the last couple of months. And I was a little bit like, wow, and I'm gonna have to cut this house because it's mean. But I was like, this is just, these are just two bozos ping ponging around in this apartment and they've like built this company and other people are like taking their advice and paying them for it. And I'm like, you guys are not.
Midzi (56:41)
You know.
Emily Jean (56:48)
the smartest tools in the shed. I'm really shocked.
Midzi (56:53)
It's true. It's true. It's true. And it's like this idea that you like, man, throw that idea away that you can't do it says who seriously says who. ⁓ And I think the moment I stopped second guessing myself and the moment I stopped thinking this was beyond me or beyond my scope or understanding or whatever, that's when I really started to
Emily Jean (56:55)
It is crazy.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sounds nice. Yeah.
Midzi (57:21)
take some risks and some calculated risks, of course. But, you know, I think at the end of the day, if you don't bet on yourself, I mean, man, nobody else will, you know, or if they will up until a point. And then after that, it's all you, you know. yeah, I don't even know what your original question was, but all I'm saying is they're not smarter than you. They're not smarter than you.
Emily Jean (57:44)
Yes, yes, yes. And to that, I agree.
Midzi (57:51)
That's it.
Emily Jean (57:51)
That's
perfect. That's all we needed actually. I have some, this is my favorite. I'm sure you saw in the outline where it says fun and offbeat questions. My assistant always puts it in. I think it's the cutest way to phrase it. Like I'm like, yeah, are fun and offbeat. Okay, so I want to, I think this is a really good question. If you could peek into anyone's skincare cabinet, who would it be?
Midzi (57:54)
That's the only takeaway.
Yeah, okay.
You
Yeah, God, I was thinking about this. And it's a hard question because there's so many. There's so many. But there is...
Emily Jean (58:30)
Mm-hmm. That's right.
Midzi (58:40)
his name. There's a cosmetic chemist, his name is Julian. ⁓ He is black, I want to say Canadian, ⁓ and he ⁓ tests sunscreens, that's just what he does. ⁓ And he talks about them and he does all these fun videos about them and the science behind it. And he always has such a measured way of looking at skincare, because I think
you can buy into the hype. And it's obviously, it would be to my benefit, right, as somebody who owns a beauty company, to tell you to buy all these different things. But actually, really what you need is a cleanser and then whatever you're treating, whether it's fine lines or wrinkles or hyperpigmentation, sunscreen and a moisturizer. Everything else is extra, really. Everything else is extra. Everything else is fun and it's sexy and it's...
Emily Jean (59:31)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Midzi (59:38)
cute and you should definitely do it if it makes you feel better, but it's not needed. And so I love his approach because it is so simplistic in nature. ⁓ And I would love to use whatever he's using because I know that it's good and it's not just like gimmicky.
Emily Jean (59:54)
Yeah, yeah. That's
great. Oh my gosh, I'm have to look him up. You said Julian? I'm gonna look it up.
Midzi (59:59)
Yeah,
yeah, yeah. His name is Junie and I'm actually going to check now. His name is Junie. He has the best videos, specifically on on a sunscreen. One second.
Emily Jean (1:00:02)
Yes, please do.
Yeah, no worries.
Midzi (1:00:16)
Where is Julian? Is that Julian? Yeah, Dr. Julian Sass. ⁓ Yeah, Dr. Julian Sass. Honestly, best. And I actually, one of the things that caught my attention was he did this video where he analyzed, I if you heard about Tower 28, but they had this sunscreen that came out that was universal. And he looked like a ghost when he put it on.
Emily Jean (1:00:23)
Okay, Julian's turn.
⁓ my god.
Midzi (1:00:46)
So it was, ⁓ yeah, and he was kind of talking about like, you know, the claims that brands can make and, you know, yeah, I just think it's really great that we have so much of that on the internet as well of just like people showing what products actually look like before you spend your hard earned cash on them. helpful. So I don't know how his bank account is doing because he does a lot of these, but hopefully he's getting them for free.
Emily Jean (1:01:01)
Yeah. Yeah.
Right, right.
Yeah, good,
good. Okay, interesting. Okay, yeah, I'm definitely gonna have to look him up. It's good to know. I love that answer. Do you have a personal can't live without it beauty product?
Midzi (1:01:19)
Yeah.
I was afraid to this question. I'm just like, I, that's a hard question.
Emily Jean (1:01:37)
You
can say your own. Like, I think I would assume, you know?
Midzi (1:01:41)
Yeah, I mean, I was going to say my own, but I didn't want to be that person. Okay, is the blocked and busy sunscreen by D to D. I mean, I say this obviously I'm biased, but truly feels like a dream. And I think the biggest thing that I have received that has warmed my heart is just people's reviews on it. You know,
Emily Jean (1:01:44)
No, I'm probably in support of being that person. ⁓
Midzi (1:02:10)
It's not just me and it's not just people I know either. In the beginning, it's like, okay, yeah, you're my cousin. You have to say that. ⁓ But from people I don't know at all, saying all of this is incredible. So that's definitely my, can't live without anymore. Before I actually started this journey, I would have said the snail mutant from Cosrx. It's a Korean brand. And I know snail mutants are-
Emily Jean (1:02:17)
Right.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I have that in
my cupboard right now. Love that stuff.
Midzi (1:02:40)
I
love it. love it. And it's a very kind of love or hate kind of product because these people who the consistency of it, which I totally understand, which I totally understand. ⁓ I don't mind things like that. So it's one of the things that honestly, it's a perfect product. ⁓ It hydrates incredibly well. If I put that on before I go to bed at night, I mean, it's just incredible. So I would have said that, but now, of course.
Emily Jean (1:02:48)
Right. Right.
Midzi (1:03:08)
Of course it's my sunscreen.
Emily Jean (1:03:10)
Yeah, yeah, of course.
I am so curious how they harvest, for lack of better word, the snail. Oh, okay. Well, and that's why we have experts here to remind me of reality. I just assumed I had somebody like some I imagine some like sweet lady who's like out here massaging the snail or something. Yeah.
Midzi (1:03:17)
I was asymptotically graded. No, no, no, they don't do it anymore. Yeah. Thanks, Larry.
I'm so sorry about this. I
just take a little, just a little of you? I mean, first of all, they would not be ⁓ as successful as they are because it would take them a very long time. They would run out of stock like that and then just be able to replace it in a year's time.
Emily Jean (1:03:41)
Okay, good.
Sure, I'm sure. ⁓
It just busted
the biggest beauty myth for me. Like, I'm sure nobody else thinks that as well, but for me, I've been here.
Midzi (1:04:01)
No, mean, I mean, it is.
That's how it started, right? That's how it started. But I mean, you know, and I think this is also an important point because I think one of my pet peeves is the clean beauty trend. Now, I'm not totally opposed to it. It's just that it is often conflated with this is good for you because it's not made in a lab. Good for you because it's organic.
Emily Jean (1:04:29)
you
Midzi (1:04:31)
because it's naturally occurring. Number one, problem with that is that it's not sustainable at all, right? Can you imagine if everything we made was organic? We would run out, like we would just run out. We would just run out. Number two, it is also a misnomer because I think when you think about clean, there is no regulation around what is clean. The section that you see in Sephora where it says clean beauty, that is based on a kind of
Emily Jean (1:04:32)
Interesting.
Right. Right. Right. Right.
Midzi (1:05:01)
popular understanding of what clean means. There is no regulation around it. So there's no body that says you need to have X percentage of this and that. It's not regulated. ⁓ So that can create some murkiness around whether something is clean or it's not. And the third thing is that there is a kind of, you know, the lab created things are the boogeyman. And that's not true. It's just not true. I can guarantee.
most of the things you're putting on your face were created on the lab, were created in somebody's kitchen. It would be highly unsustainable and the industry would not exist as it exists right now. But also particularly when it comes to sunscreen, you cannot create that yourself. There is no such thing. No such thing as, and people ask me all the time like, is this like, know, natural? Is it like clean? I'm like, there's no...
Emily Jean (1:05:32)
Right.
Right. Right.
Midzi (1:05:56)
There is no such thing as a onscreen that I derived from the plant that's like in my backyard. It's just not, that's not a thing. And anyone telling you that it is, is lying to you. ⁓ And you are not getting the SPF 50 that they're saying you're getting. ⁓ And so it is disturbing to see some of these myths come about again. ⁓ So I do want to say that. Like the lab is not inherently evil.
Emily Jean (1:06:25)
Yeah.
Midzi (1:06:26)
You think though.
Emily Jean (1:06:27)
That is
brilliant. Thank you for saying that because I think me as a consumer, have been able to recognize that on some conscious level and yet marketing still works and I'm drawn to that. It is the trending topic for a long time. So I really appreciate you saying that. I think that's a really good myth to bust for lack of better phrase.
Midzi (1:06:46)
Yeah. Yeah.
Emily Jean (1:06:57)
Yeah, brilliant. I want to ask you kind of to wrap up a little bit here. Where do you want deeper beauty to be in the next two years?
Midzi (1:07:08)
Yeah. In the next two years, I'm hoping that I have a suite of five different products. ⁓ My brand focuses on three specific areas. So the big one is sun care. The second is ⁓ uneven skin tone, so hyperpigmentation. And the third one is hydration. So all of my products will kind of layer ⁓ up to that particular pillar structure. ⁓
And so I'm looking at having more products, but I'm also looking at being in more places. And so two years from now, I would love to be in all of the Gulf countries, in a few countries in Africa, a few countries in the EU. ⁓ But I'd also love to see the evolution of deeper kind of getting into more clinical trial space as well. And so I'd love to be able to work with different institutions and different labs to kind of make sure that we're doing more research around skin of color, which is
I mean, that's a huge topic, very expensive to do. And so I would definitely need to be in partnership with different institutions, whether it's universities or otherwise. I would love to be able to contribute not just to the products that are on the shelves, but also to the research and the knowledge that goes with it. ⁓ And hopefully that's the mark that I leave behind.
Emily Jean (1:08:31)
that's great. Manifesting all of that for you. I feel like that's a bit of a cringe phrase now, but I'm sure it'll happen.
Midzi (1:08:36)
Thank you. You pulled
it off. You pulled it off. You pulled it off. Should I say that? You should say it. Just say it. It's fine.
Emily Jean (1:08:45)
It left my mouth and I was like, ooh, ooh, ooh. Yeah.
Okay, well, I want to do some rapid fires with you because this is my favorite part. Well, it won't be my favorite part of this conversation probably, but okay. My first one is what is one beauty myth? well, we kind of got into this, but maybe you have a different answer.
What is one beauty myth you wish people would stop believing?
Midzi (1:09:17)
That sunscreen is toxic.
Emily Jean (1:09:20)
done, period, no other words. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, and it's solved and it's solved and thank you for your service.
Midzi (1:09:22)
I mean, he's like done. It's no longer, no one believes it anymore.
Love it.
Emily Jean (1:09:37)
Okay, AI and beauty, what do you think is the most exciting thing about it right now?
Midzi (1:09:45)
The hyper personalization of skincare. ⁓ think coming up with routines and ingredients and things that work for you specifically, particularly for people who haven't been part of the conversation, I think that's the most exciting thing.
Emily Jean (1:10:03)
Great. What is your go-to self-care ritual after a long day?
Midzi (1:10:11)
Ooh. ⁓
Chocolate chip cookie. And I like, but I like, I'm very specific. I'm a chocolate lover. But like when I say love, I'm obsessed, like truly. If you give me a bad chocolate, like I will cut you out of my life truly. But that's it, the relationship's over. So very specific about my chocolate chip cookies. So chocolate chip cookie.
Emily Jean (1:10:25)
Okay.
They ruined. Okay, got it.
Bye.
Midzi (1:10:43)
some Roy Boss tea, I don't know you know what Roy Boss is, it's a, okay, some Roy Boss tea ⁓ and a True Crime podcast episode.
Emily Jean (1:10:46)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep.
⁓ my gosh, that really touches me. Like that sounds so good.
Midzi (1:11:00)
you
Sounds like bliss to say. Yeah.
Emily Jean (1:11:06)
Yeah, that's amazing. Okay, love that. So specific too.
Okay, my last question is, this is a really good question, I think. I hate saying that because it's like, well, I came up with that.
Midzi (1:11:18)
It's
bit self-congratulatory, but okay. She's like, yeah, that's just what I do. I create great questions. That's so funny.
Emily Jean (1:11:22)
This is a really good question.
No problem. Okay.
Do you have one course or resource or book or anything like that for kind budding entrepreneurs that you would recommend?
Midzi (1:11:53)
Ooh, okay. I know this is a super cliche, but his name is Simon Sinek. His name is Simon Sinek. ⁓ Start with Y. ⁓ That was, I think, the first time that I read something that made me think, ⁓ could, yeah, I could do this.
Emily Jean (1:12:03)
Mm-hmm.
Really good one.
Midzi (1:12:20)
I could definitely be an entrepreneur. think there was something about the way that he shifted the way that I thought about ⁓ business and how to lead in a way that's intentional and how to create, or how to kind of get rid of your confirmation biases and how to step outside of yourself to create something that matters. ⁓ That really resonated with me. So I know he's super popular and like whatever, but he's right.
Emily Jean (1:12:47)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Great book. I feel like that's very on theme for you. that, totally makes sense. Well, I'm so excited I got to have you on Midsy. This has been like so informative for me. ⁓ And so I think will be really informative for a lot of people. Where can people find you and where can they find deeper beauty?
Midzi (1:12:49)
But he's right.
I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Good luck.
That's it.
Sure. So we have ⁓ Instagram on it's deeperbeauty.co on Instagram. ⁓ I have a founder account as well. So it's deep underscore in underscore DXB. DXB is a abbreviation for Dubai. So yeah, find me on Instagram. I'm on TikTok at the same ⁓ handle as well. ⁓ I try and be ⁓ fun and like fun to watch. So hopefully.
Hopefully you enjoy my content as well. But yeah, reach out anytime. ⁓ My DMs are open, as they say.
Emily Jean (1:13:50)
Okay, great. Well, thank you so much, Missy. I'm so excited. I gotta have you on and thank you for coming.
Midzi (1:13:54)
Thank you.
Thank you so much, Emily. I really appreciate the time. It's been lovely talking to you. And yeah, when you're in Dubai, don't be that person who's like, ⁓ I was in Dubai and you don't say anything. OK, I'll know.
Emily Jean (1:14:05)
you there.
No, that's not
my vibe. My vibe is like, I'm staying in your house and you didn't invite me and I'll be there for many days.
Midzi (1:14:17)
I'm like, oh didn't I tell you? I'm here for the week. I'm so very excited. So where do I sleep? do sleep?
Emily Jean (1:14:21)
Yeah, surprise. ⁓
