Selling with Conviction and Showing Up Unapologetically with Grace Lancer of Grace Lancer Coaching
Selling with Conviction and Showing Up Unapologetically with Grace Lancer of Grace Lancer Coaching
Episode Description
When you meet Grace Lancer, you immediately know she was never meant for the 9-to-5 grind. As a personal branding and marketing strategist for powerhouse female coaches, Grace helps women sell with undeniable conviction—ditching the funnels, the scripts, and the self-doubt to build businesses fueled by authenticity and confidence.
In this episode, Grace joins Emily Jean to talk about quitting corporate, building a personal brand that actually converts, and why personality—not perfection—is your most profitable asset.
Highlights
Why Grace walked away from corporate life after realizing her personality no longer fit the “sit down and shut up” culture
How to sell with conviction so potential clients think, “F*ck, I need to buy from this person”
The “no Plan B” mindset every entrepreneur needs to succeed
Why websites don’t matter (yet) and what you actually need to attract your first clients
How to build a magnetic personal brand on LinkedIn—and why it’s the most underrated platform for female founders
Finding the line between personality and professionalism without toning yourself down
Grace’s refreshing take on remote work, work-life balance, and employee wellbeing
The mindset shift that helped her stop overthinking content and start showing up authentically
Practical video and content creation tips that make you stand out without fancy equipment
Why your ideal client should evolve as you evolve—and how to know when it’s time to pivot
Why this episode matters
If you’ve ever doubted your voice, your niche, or your worth in business—this episode is your permission slip to stop holding back. Grace and Emily talk about building confidence, creating conviction, and showing up online in a way that feels so you that selling becomes second nature.
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SEO Keywords
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Transcript:
Grace Lancer (00:00)
And all of a sudden it was like, we don't really care about your personality anymore. It's about people that sit down, shut up and get the job done. I really help them sell with undeniable conviction. All of this together is how you show up and sell with conviction. So people are like...
Fuck, I need to buy from this person. I have a personality that was not made for the 9-5 world. What is one piece of advice you would give to entrepreneurs who are starting their own business? Do it, just go for it and just decide that there's no plan B. What would you say is the first thing that people should focus on when they are building their own company? So obviously...
Emily Jean (00:38)
welcome to or welcome back to Founders in Jeans. I'm your host, Emily Jean. And before we get into the episode,
I just wanted to come on here and say thank you so much. I also wanted to say that if you enjoy the show, feel free to leave a review on Spotify or Apple, wherever you're listening to this, and also to follow us. You can follow us on Spotify, of course. You can follow us on Instagram at FoundersinJeans You can also find me on Instagram at Emily.Jeans.
or you can look me up on LinkedIn. I'm always happy to connect with people on there and I have a lot of good conversations from listeners. Also, you can always leave a bad review for us. I'm totally fine with that. And in fact, I think that's exciting. I would love to know what we can do to improve. So you can also leave comments below and let me know what you enjoyed, what you didn't enjoy. I actually do read every single one.
We also have a newsletter that comes out once a week so you can get all the updates from us. also put in
some weekly business and marketing updates in there, as well as some personal notes from me. You can subscribe to that on my LinkedIn, also through the Instagram and in the show notes below. Anyways, that is all from me. I'm so excited for you to listen to this episode. I hope it's a good one and I'll chat to you soon.
Emily Jean (02:07)
Grace Lancer of Grace Lancer. Welcome to Founders and Jeans. How are you doing today?
Grace (02:10)
Yeah
I'm so excited to be here today, especially after our call last week and I felt like we really clicked over many things. So very excited to be here and talk about all things business.
Emily Jean (02:22)
Yeah, also I have to say, I feel like you're the type of person that could click with anyone. So you're like so sweet and you're so bubbly and you're so open. So I just know this is gonna be like the best conversation ever. I'm really excited.
Grace (02:34)
Yes, it'll be like
Stephen Bartlett on his diary of a CEO. They just get longer and longer, those episodes. Like two and a half hour on podcast will be like at some point we just got to cut it off.
Emily Jean (02:39)
Exactly. Yeah.
Exactly, that's exactly. Okay, well for people who don't know you, why don't you introduce yourself?
Grace (02:48)
Thank you.
Sure. So hi everyone. I'm Grace Spencer. I'm a personal branding and marketing strategist. And I work with established powerhouse female coaches. And typically my clients come to me saying, sales are really slow. They're inconsistent. I've got amazing services, but it just really, you know, feels like a challenge to get people over the line. They always come to me. They say, it sounds great, but let's look at it later in the year. Or, you know, I've not got the budget for this. So let's discuss later in the year.
And what I do is I really help them sell with undeniable conviction so they can actually sign and convert clients within days and weeks. And all these long drawn out months that a lot of people believe you need months and months of nurturing, 27 different funnels, all of this complication in order to sign clients. And we cut through all of that. And it's a mixture of business strategy mindset, marketing, of course, a personal branding. And all of this together is how you show up and sell with conviction. So people are like,
fuck I need to buy from this person.
Emily Jean (03:52)
And
I love that. I love that too because I love having guests introduce themselves because I can never do that justice. Like that is beautifully said. Okay, well, I want to start with kind of the most obvious thing is how did you get into doing what you're doing now?
Grace (04:07)
It's a great question. So I have a personality that was not made for the 95 world. And for those of you watching this podcast, you may know me already. You see, I talk about this a lot in my content. And if we really go back, back in 2015, I got a job at a HR tech company, very new kind of eight years old. They were still in this startup phase and I was hired for my personality and being a really good culture fit.
And then two years in, the company changed. It became more corporate. There was more red tape management, private equity backed, you know, and they had these goals. And all of a sudden it was like, we don't really care about your personality anymore. It's about people that sit down, shut up and get the job done. And for someone like me, that is typically an outspoken person. I challenge, I have personality. It was very difficult for me to be in this environment where I was hired for my personality. And then two years in,
it felt like it wasn't appreciated anymore. And it became very difficult for me. had, I then stayed on for a further two years, but I was applying for other jobs and I was just like, none of this lights me up. And I realized it was because my personality was just not made to stay in this rigid nine to five structure. So it's like the universe was talking to me and in June, May, 2019, I got a Facebook ad.
for this company called the Coaching Academy and it was like two days, something like two days, a free two day weekend in London to figure out your life's purpose or something. And I was just like, why not? I'm stuck with my life. I don't know what else to do. So I went along to these free two days in central London and by the end I was just like, wow, I need to become a life coach. I was like, I have no idea how I'm gonna grow a business, find clients, sign clients, but I know.
that it is my life's work to inspire, motivate people to make radical change in their life for the better. So I signed up to this life coaching certification diploma and I was just like, this is my way out of corporate, out of a job. And I had no idea how I was gonna build a business, market myself, get clients, but I was just like, that's something future me can deal with. So.
So that was it. That was how I got started doing what I do today. Launched my business in COVID, May 2020. And it's just naturally pivoted over time based on not just what I'm good at, what my clients come to me for, where my skills lie, but something I talk about a lot in my content now in businesses, it's really, you can be given a blueprint. You can be given, here's the magic strategy.
But if you don't believe in yourself, if you don't have the self-worth, if you don't know your value, the value of yourself, the value of your services, the magical blueprint won't help you get anywhere. So it's been a journey for me over the last five years, like for everyone just generally in life, healing themselves, figuring life out. And that's got me today to doing what I do now.
Emily Jean (07:08)
I think that's great too, especially given for people who do go on to be entrepreneurs and make their own startups and things. It's not typical advice. I hear often a lot, it's stay in your corporate job and work on your startup until you have the means to leave that, which I actually think is as good advice. So I love that you said that. was like my-
not work for you is like the blueprints of even doing something off on your own might not work for everybody. I think that's brilliant too. I want to ask you. Yeah, sorry. Go ahead.
Grace (07:38)
You ⁓
know, she's gonna say you really have to have a certain type of personality to work to make self employment work, because you can have the best ideas, you can have like the vision. But if you don't have the staying power, if you don't have the mindset that really is resilient, that doesn't just give up at the first hurdle, you know, like that's, that's when it
likely won't work out for you. You really have to be so resolute in your approach to building a business and be like, there's no plan B. Because if you've already got a plan B, if you've got your foot out the door, feel like it's probably not going to work for you.
Emily Jean (08:18)
Yeah, absolutely. And I want to go back to that phrase, personality higher too. I feel like that's such a trending term right now. It's actually something I didn't really know what it meant and I have a different opinion on it now, but I want to hear what is your opinion on the phrase personality higher and why do you think that is like a trending term right now?
Grace (08:40)
So I actually haven't heard of this. So in what way like people being hired for their personality.
Emily Jean (08:46)
Yeah, so I've been seeing a lot of TikToks and reels and things that are like when you're just the personality hire and you can like show up at any time, but you can like basically charm anyone and like you're there to like keep things light and things. So it kind of reminds me a little bit of what you were chatting about being hired for your personality. I'm sure it's different, but what's your opinion on that?
Grace (09:03)
Mm-hmm.
So, I mean, I really believe it's the same in business, you know, as in being employed, but so much of the time people in corporate, especially my experience, they don't want these big personality in the past, okay, I speak for when I was asked, things have changed. They don't want these like big personality people who, you know, like...
talk in the workplace and they're the social butterflies and you know the perception is like they're just talking to everyone they're not necessarily getting work done. The thing is if that's a trend saying like these personality highs can charm their way into anything it was very good that even though I felt like they kind of stopped respecting me from a personality perspective when things got more corporate
in the way of being able to influence, like I was very good at my job, my clients were very happy with me. And so it kind of made it hard for them to like really try and like boot me out the company because I was really good and I got like some of the best results for the, for the department. But we see how times are changing now, especially with employee branding. And I really believe that the companies who don't try and use the biggest personality, but actually say
You can be the superstars of our brands. Like if we like let you go loose on LinkedIn, on Instagram, wherever the company's building their brand and they become the brand advocates, then I really believe these are the companies that are going to do really well where they get these big personality highs and they say, you are going to be the superstars because we see how now companies need to become more humanized in order to stand out in the market, to get the best talent.
People don't just care about, okay, what's the employee benefits package? They care about like, what's the vibe of your company? Like what are the values? What kind of employees do you have there? Who are my colleagues going to be? So really, really believe now more than ever, it is so important that companies hone in on these personality highs and say like, you are going to become our advocates. Like the opposite of trying to tone them down. Like we want to amp you up and you're going to be the people that like take our business to the next level.
Emily Jean (11:14)
Right. And I love that. No, I think that's really true, too. Like I can think of multiple brands off the top of my head. Even I saw the other day that there was some brands, I'm not going to remember it now, but they had created their own like kind of faux personal assistant persona. And it wasn't actually a real person, but they were pretending that there was like this like crazy assistant who was running the account and like a social media manager or something like that.
Grace (11:15)
That's what I would love to see.
Emily Jean (11:42)
And I thought that that is brilliant. I think it's very effective because the young consumer relates to that because most of them are in jobs similar to that. And yeah, I would even argue too, because I've heard of some dismissal. I think there's some joking dismissal of the personality higher trope. And I would argue that I think it's like a gendered dismissal thing. I think it's because typically,
women fall into those roles, especially as like the in-house content creator, whatever it may be. And then therefore it becomes seen as less serious or less professional, even if that moves the needle. Anyways, I just think that it's like such an interesting concept and yeah.
Grace (12:18)
Mm-hmm.
So
sure. I want to see more companies embracing it now, you know, where a lot of companies are using social media to actually build their brand out in public. You know, you, you, how do you cut through the noise? If you're just being a boring corporate brand, you're not going to get noticed. And the ones that do social media really well, Ryanair, Duolingo, you know, they, have so much personality in their brand.
So people remember them and they will go, oh, that's a cool company to work for.
Emily Jean (12:51)
Right. I saw the other day Emma Greed was talking on a podcast and I want to hear your opinion on this. And she said that if I'm in an interview and I'm interviewing an employee and they ask me about work-life balance, I take that as a red flag. What's your opinion on that?
Grace (13:09)
I am a huge advocate. of my I don't stick to my content pillars religiously, but one of my content pillars is work life balance and how all the umbrella things that come under that well being physical well being mental well being. And again, like I believe so strongly in work life balance, I was very lucky that the company where I worked was actually quite big on work life balance. You know, there was flexibility, you cut you
couldn't necessarily leave the office at 3 p.m. but like also in a way they allowed it. Sometimes you'd feel bad like sneaking out but if you had a genuine reason or you were doing work later you had to leave. They had this flexibility and they had like big well-being budgets and a big well-being initiative so I was very lucky that I worked at that company. I think though personally with the new, I wonder what generation they're talking about but when we see like all the stereotypes around Gen Z, ⁓
no loyalty, want everything for nothing, don't want to put the work in, but want the salary. I understand how if they're referring to that generation, it can seem like a red flag because the stereotypes at Gen Z don't want to do work anyway. So if they're coming to an interview going, I want my life balance, then the alarm bells go, you basically want to come to the company and not actually do any work. But that's their take on it, right? So it's like, it's not necessarily fair to assume that someone's thinking that.
But we see the rise of mental wellbeing, mental health, physical wellbeing, physical health. And I really believe that companies should be supporting that because if an employee is happy and an employee is supported to have work-life balance, if it means taking their full hour lunch break to go for a walk, you know, leaving at five o'clock because they want to go socialize, that's what's good for their mental wellbeing. Ultimately.
they're going to be a better employee in the workplace. you know, know startups have this culture, I have a friend at a startup and last night she is a rarity, but she had to take a call at 10pm because we're in a time zone. The client was in like Pacific time zone or something West coast America. So she had to take a call at 10pm, you know, and it's like, there's flexibility. She'll probably take that time, you know, from,
an hour the next day or something. But for me, it's around not necessarily being stringent and rigid, but it's about flexibility. You are you allowing people to be flexible so they can get the work done while still having work-life balance? So in a nutshell, I'm a huge advocate for work-life balance. I really believe it is so important for happiness, for mental wellbeing, and for employees specifically to do their best work.
Emily Jean (15:48)
And in the same vein, feel like remote working is also very much comes into conversation around this. She also said in an interview that she doesn't believe in remote working. She thinks it's not effective, which I think is, I just, is very interesting to me because you do see, of course, cases where companies have remote workers and then it doesn't work, but you also see cases where it totally does work. So what is your opinion on remote work? Do you think it can work?
Grace (15:55)
Mm-hmm.
Emily Jean (16:16)
on an individual basis? Do you think it can work for a group, but it depends how it's implemented? What's your opinion?
Grace (16:21)
potentially based on me and my personal circumstances, I potentially have a controversial opinion on this because as somebody that values freedom, as somebody who obviously, you know, I'm from the UK, I moved to Tel Aviv, I wanted that freedom to basically, you know, and I love traveling. So like, I love having the freedom of like being able to work from wherever I want from a laptop. But I have that luxury as someone who's self employed. Now from an employee perspective, my
controversial opinion is actually that a hybrid approach is best because I honestly believe if you are a company, it's important that you go to the office that you're bonding with your teammates that you're meeting them in person. And I see this in person. do so much on zoom. Aren't we lucky that we're here. You're in Australia. I'm like in a time zone, seven hours behind you. And like we can connect over zoom and do a podcast, which is incredible. But sometimes I'm like,
It'd be really great if I had more in-person clients, you know, just to go around the table and bash out ideas and just meet people. So for me, if I was an employee, I really believe that a hybrid approach is best. Not again, not rigid, not you have to come to the office on a Monday and a Wednesday, but saying like, you know, we, we love to see you in the office a couple of times a week. If somebody is like, I'd love to go and work in Thailand for a month.
But again, there's flexibility, yet no problem because, you know, the rest of the time when you're here, it's fine. So yes, as somebody that values freedom, but as an employee, if it was an employee, it's my controversial opinion that I think totally remote can make people actually disconnected from the company and also their colleagues.
Emily Jean (18:02)
No, that makes total sense to me. I think that's especially true for kind of budding companies or even just new employees. I think a sense of community in an office is incredibly important. And I think also it's one of those things you do want something to work towards too. Like if your goal is in five years, I want to work remotely. I've put in the hours in the office. I feel really deep connection with everyone there. Then that is totally makes sense.
Grace (18:10)
Mm-hmm. ⁓
Mm-hmm.
Emily Jean (18:30)
But yeah, not everybody feels the same.
Grace (18:33)
Exactly. And I understand that some CEOs or management, they want to do it as a way to control people. You know, how do we know they're doing the work if they're working remotely? Well, this is where trust comes into it. Because ultimately, you'll know if someone's not doing the work. Because if you have weekly meetings with managers and teams, and you set out like, these are the KPIs, you know, this is these are the goals we want you to achieve over the next week. They either come to the next week with the goals done or not.
Emily Jean (19:01)
Mm-hmm.
Grace (19:02)
And so
this is where I believe that nine to fives shouldn't be rigidly nine to fives about the time. This is where I believe everything should be focused on outcomes, even as an employee. And the work as a business owner, as an employee, it's endless. There's always more stuff to be doing. But as an employee, you could get sucked into doing 10, 12 hour days as well.
So I really believe it's just we set out, this is what I want you to do over the next week. And however you want to do that, whatever hours you want to do that, unless of course there were client calls or similar, you do it when you want, as long as you do the work.
Emily Jean (19:39)
Yeah, I going back to that, like there's a lot to focus on. I'm curious for people who are listening to this, who it's like they're, they want to do what you do basically. What would you say is the first thing that people should focus on when they are building their own company?
Grace (19:56)
So obviously, I'm speaking as a self-employed solo coach. Obviously, I'm not sure if it would be different if someone's like building a tech startup, for example, like I've, that's not my experience, but it's all, it's the same as what I work on with all of my clients when they come to me, whether they're beginners, although I don't tend to work with beginners so much anymore. Even if people are established, we go back to the same thing because it's, they come to me, sales are slow, sales are inconsistent.
we always need to go back to the foundational things where there's likely a leak. And that is, you need to get so clear on who your ideal client is very specifically, what your services are for, what's the problem you're solving, what's the very specific, measurable, tangible, time-focused goal that you are helping people achieve, and why do people want that? And when you've got these five questions answered,
This forms the foundation of the message you're going to put out there, the way you position your brand, the way you position what you're selling and knowing how to position what you're selling your services to the people you want to attract. So that's the first thing. I remember when I started, I was going, I need a website, I need business cards. How many people have said that? So many people have said that. And the reality is you need an offer that solves a problem. You need services that solve a problem.
Emily Jean (21:11)
Right.
Grace (21:17)
And you need to know who needs that problem solving and who's going to pay for it. And very simply, that is where to start. And if you're thinking, how do I know that? You've got to have an idea. Where are your strengths? What do you want to do? What are you already good at? And do you have experience in a specific industry or niche that is appealing to you? And go and start doing market research with those people.
Just grab a handful of people, get them on calls, start asking them, what are your biggest problems at the moment in relation to the work that you want to do? If you could create the perfect service that would help you with this, what would that look like? With a number of other questions that I also help my clients with, but just get out there and start speaking to your target audience, find out what they need help with, and then create an offer for your services based around what they
what they tell you and go back out and pitch that to them.
Emily Jean (22:10)
Yeah, I love what you said too about the website. When I first started my agency, that was the first thing I did. And you spend like weeks, months working on a beautiful website and then you're like, wait, there's like no one here to look at it. ⁓ So yeah, I think like highest ROI, like those should be your first and most important things that you're doing.
Grace (22:18)
Mm-hmm.
Thank you, Dave.
Emily Jean (22:37)
like when you're building something.
Grace (22:38)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Literally just talking to people. was the same. You're like, right, I've got a website. And it's like, but unless you have a strategy to direct traffic to your website, people are not just going to find you. And I know website strategists will say differently. And and I of course see the value in having a website, but you do not need a website for people to sign up with you. You need to have somewhere where you can present your services, but you know, we're both on LinkedIn. That's how we met.
LinkedIn itself, LinkedIn, when you create your profile, it's basically like a sales page. It's big thing what I help my clients with is how to set up your LinkedIn profile. So it's fully optimized to speak to your ideal client, to grow a following of ideal clients and to bring inbound inquiries. That's what a sales page does. And it's great that LinkedIn acts as that.
Emily Jean (23:27)
Right. I do want to talk about LinkedIn, because as I've told you, I love LinkedIn. It's my newfound favorite thing ever. ⁓ You are a LinkedIn guru, though, like the ultimate LinkedIn guru. Like when I think LinkedIn influencer, I'm like, it's grace and there's no way around it. So when did you first start?
Grace (23:31)
Yay! ⁓
I'm there with you.
Ha ha ha!
⁓ thank you. I'm blushing.
Emily Jean (23:52)
posting on LinkedIn. That's where I want to start.
Grace (23:54)
It's a good question. So it was around May 22, March 22. And I said, I'd started my business in May 2020 on Instagram. And two years in, like a lot of people, was just like, Instagram is dying a slow death. Reach was going down, which is obviously where we're at with LinkedIn now, but Reach was going down, engagement was going down. And I was like, I just don't feel like it's sustainable.
to build a business on Instagram only. So I was like, let me give LinkedIn a go, because I already had a profile from back in my employee days, but I hadn't done anything with it, you know, the old company update here and there. So I said, let me give LinkedIn a try and see what there was over here. So it was, yeah, March, 2022. So it's been three and a half years. Three and a half years now since I started building and
Probably to answer your next question, I've been incredibly consistent in those three and a half years. I post mostly like five or six times a week, but three and a half years apart from the odd week off at Christmas or a holiday, yeah.
Emily Jean (24:56)
Right.
And you've really perfected the art of it. Like I know, I feel like I can like see what your posts looks like, like in my head. You know what I mean? Like you have a very specific and clear brands. When you're looking at your client's LinkedIn profile for the first time, what would you say is the number one thing that sticks out to you first that they're not doing or that they are doing?
Grace (25:06)
Mm-hmm.
So it is about the LinkedIn profiles. So as we said, it needs to be optimized. And what I mean by that is having a LinkedIn profile that is set up to speak to and attract your ideal client. So we want to treat it like a landing page. a lot of the time, people will have above their profile photo,
got the banner, which as a designer says on a designer that I know on LinkedIn, she calls it prime real estate. And it's true. That's where you need to have something bold that speaks to the problem that speaks to the goal that connects with your ideal client that asks a curiosity question that makes them say, my goodness, yes, that's me. So a lot of the time, the banner won't be filled out in a way that that connects with the ideal client. And then the tagline.
A lot of the time people will just have something that just says what their job is, like founder at this company, mindset coach, content strategist. And that needs to be basically a one-liner elevator pitch that's telling people who you help, how you help them, what you help them achieve. So that again, the minute they look at that, they're like, that's me, I need help with that. That's the thing that they do. And yes, that's the result that I want.
And then if we go down to the about section, a lot of the time, you know, people will fill this out as literally about me. ⁓ like a, you know, I've got five years experience as a content manager doing this. And that's your opportunity to create a mini sales page very specifically. Again, that calls out your ideal client based on the problem they have elaborating on the problem, sharing empathy, weaving in emotional, vulnerable storytelling and showing them.
where they're going wrong, the myths that need busting that they think they need in order to achieve the goal that you're saying you don't, and then what your services do and how it helps them. So that's where people are mostly going wrong is you, I can just tell instantly, you go onto a LinkedIn profile and you're like, this is just not set up to attract your ideal client.
Emily Jean (27:15)
Right.
Grace (27:17)
And it's the first step.
Emily Jean (27:19)
Yeah, yeah, I can tell. The crazy thing to me is I'll see somebody, saw somebody the other day actually, I don't know how it came up, but it said, they had posted something like, everybody says they see growth so fast on LinkedIn, I'm not seeing any growth. And they had no profile photo. And I was like, well, let's start with the most basic thing, but everybody has their own thing. anyways.
Grace (27:40)
Wow, literally, yeah.
everybody
again, it's like people want the magic wand. It doesn't make sense to me to you know, lot of people that don't have past marketing experience or LinkedIn experience or sales experience. And they're just like, I want to try and figure this out by myself. And to be totally honest, it's not a mindset that I can relate to. Because back when I started in business, I'd quit my job, I had no income coming in. But I was like, I literally have no idea how to start a business how to market myself.
What I need to say, I just had no idea. So from the offset, I dropped 3000 pounds onto a group coaching program because I was like, I just have no idea. And that's always been my mindset because I value time so much and I'm like, I just don't want to waste time figuring it out. But people are kind of, you know, on here wondering why LinkedIn isn't working for them. But as you said, you know, they're not marketing themselves, they're not positioning themselves in the right way through no fault of their own. They just don't have that past experience.
But then, know, lot of people, they don't want to invest to learn how to do it. So it's this kind of catch-22. And it's like, if you knew how to do it, things will be working for you.
Emily Jean (28:53)
Right.
Well, and it's easy too for me to like get caught up in, because I live in that world and you live in that world. So I'm like, well, this seems so obvious. And I forget like that it's not obvious. Like there's a reason why people go to school to study these things is like, it's not second nature. So of course we need someone to guide us.
Grace (29:07)
Yeah.
I think there's an actual phrase for it, where people, where you're so good at what you do, that you're just like, why would somebody invest in this? Because it just comes like second nature to you, but it's like so hard for the people that don't know how to do it.
Emily Jean (29:29)
Right, right, totally. that's interesting. I've not heard that before. love that. ⁓ Yeah.
Grace (29:32)
Yeah, and that's
why people can end value what they're selling because you're like, it's so easy. Like, why would someone not know how to do this?
Emily Jean (29:42)
Right, right.
I wanted to ask you, you I think have really mastered the art of this thin line between personal brand and professional company. And I'm guess I'm trying to figure out how to phrase this, but like, what advice do you have to give to people? Because your personality comes out so clearly through your posts.
Grace (29:45)
Literally.
Emily Jean (30:08)
And I think you use that as an opportunity to bring people in. Instead, I think other people would assume it pushes them out. Do you know what I'm saying?
Grace (30:18)
So I had this again, as someone with a big personality, when I was starting my business, I was like, I'm so excited to just be me and say whatever I want and not have bad managers tell me I can't do it. But all this corporate and society, societal conditioning that I had, I started my business and I just overthought all my content. was like, I remember a specific example. I'd moved home with my parents in COVID and we had a dog.
I took her out for a walk and I was like, I want to post a video on this walk. And I was like, but what if people think it's unprofessional? What if like people think, it's not related to business? Why would I follow this person? What if they don't take me seriously because I'm not posting business content? And I overthought it for half an hour. And in the end, I decided not to post it. And then it came to six months into business and I just gave myself a reality check from where I'd been toning myself down. And I was like,
If you want to be this leader in the niche, in your niche, you have to be willing to be the leader and be that voice for the people that don't yet have the confidence to say the things that you're saying or show up in the way that you're showing up. So I just had this like eureka moment where I was like, I need to do this. But it's like, it hasn't gone like that over the years in terms of how I felt. I've had years where I like...
Last year, specifically 2024, I found myself again, like toning down my message and going, I want to say that, but like, oh, it's a bit much. And so I did and had a big realization at Christmas. I sat down. I was like, I need to start amping it all up again. But the thing that you need to remember is that you want to attract your ideal clients. Okay. You are not trying to market to everybody. You're not trying to, if you've got a fun personality and you're like, I want fun clients. You're not trying to market to like.
Colin who works in finance that thinks that personality doesn't belong on LinkedIn. So you have to remember that first and foremost is who do you want to attract? Do you want to attract people like you who are fun and outgoing and chatty and full of personality? In which case you need to show up like that because if you're toning yourself down, if you're showing up in a corporate way, you're not going to attract the personality filled clients that you want because they'll be like, you're a bit boring. So it's about remembering.
Like who's the person I want to attract? I'm not for everyone. I'm not trying to attract everyone. I am just attracting my ideal client. And the balance of personality with professionalism, if we could call it that, the authority piece, the being professional, it comes to me from knowing your ideal client, knowing them so well that they read your content and they're not like, this is a friend or like, you're so inspiring. It's like.
this person knows what they're talking about and they're like serious in business. But personality is just writing in your unique style, in your tone of voice, not being afraid to like, if you're someone who swears, like drop that F word into your post if that's you. Because the right people will love it if they're ideal client.
Emily Jean (33:16)
Right, right. that's good advice. I really like that. I think that this is more of a question for me, but something that I've been struggling lately considering my, it's hard to consider a personal brand from a high level, which is why I think you always need somebody else to give you guidance on that. But something I've been considering is like,
Grace (33:20)
Do it!
Emily Jean (33:39)
If my personal brand is me and I know that I am a dynamic human being, my style or the way I perceive things could change in a year or so. So do you have any advice for people who are considering like, can I pivot on a personal brand in a year or like, will I lose all my clients? How does that look?
Grace (33:59)
absolutely love this question because I just kicked off Activate a 30 day accelerator, which obviously listening to this, it is closed now. But in the first call, I literally asked this to my clients. Okay, we were looking at going deep on the ideal client, the positioning, who they want to serve. And I basically raised this question, which is, are you
truly serving the ideal client right now that you want to work with? Or are you still talking to the ideal client that feels comfortable to you? And they all had these light bulb moments of, I'm not talking to the person that I really want to work with because it's just easier to stay with the safe person that I've always marketed to. And I told them, said, if you are always evolving as a person,
If you are not the same person that you literally were a year ago, how can you still be speaking to the same client that you were marketing to a year ago? Because if you're evolving, then your ideal client also needs to evolve. So it's a journey. So you market at any one time, you market to the ideal client that you want to work with. And then as you evolve, your ideal client should evolve with you.
So you just kind of like a year down the line when that changes and you review and ask yourself this same question, am I truly marketing right now to the person that I want to work with or the person that I feel like I have to work with because it's always been the person that I've marketed myself to? And that itself will, know, naturally businesses, journeys, people evolve. So you just need to constantly reassess, I still marketing to the person that I truly want to work with?
Emily Jean (35:36)
Right, right. I love that. I think that's very good advice. It's good for me to hear too. I am constantly shocked at my own ability to do this is like, like this idea that like things have to stay one way the entire time, even a company name. Like I always give advice to like budding founders that if you're starting, just decide on a name.
Grace (35:37)
And if not, switch it up.
Emily Jean (35:59)
Like just decide, like choose the first one that comes to mind. It's probably the least important part. You can always change it later. And in fact, you'll probably come up with a better name later when you have a better idea of what you're trying to really sell to people. But ⁓ yeah.
Grace (36:01)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
100 % agree. Too many people stay in the perfectionist mode rather than, you know, just taking messy action and knowing that they'll figure it out along the way.
Emily Jean (36:25)
Right, right. Gosh, I had another question for you and I forgot it. What was it? Something? Doesn't matter. yeah, ⁓ exactly. Well, I guess then I wanted to, what was it? I wanted to ask you about traveling. I know that you are traveling all over all the time. How do you kind of manage your workload plus traveling?
Grace (36:30)
I hate that. It will come to you in like 30 seconds.
Emily Jean (36:47)
plus like time changes and that sort of thing. What does that process look like for you?
Grace (36:51)
Mm hmm. So what I basically do, so if we go back to like April, I actually haven't done this before. Whenever I've taken holidays, I've always kind of sort of worked through like even if it's just making sure that I'm still posting every day on LinkedIn, being visible, doing a bit of DM work. But back in April, I took a 10 day trip with a friend who's not self employed. And I was like, I don't want to be on my laptop all the time when I'm with her like it's it's a holiday like
I actually have never just taken, well, apart from at Christmas as well, but like on a holiday, I've never just said, I am not working while I'm away. And I made a decision. I was like, I'm taking 10 days off LinkedIn. So with the client calls that I have, I just postponed them so that I had no calls while I was away. Said I'm not going on LinkedIn, I'm not creating content, I'm just enjoying my holiday. And it felt...
really good. It felt really nice. Your business won't fall to the ground if you take a week off LinkedIn. People won't forget who you are if you take time off LinkedIn. there's that. I was away in June, I was still doing LinkedIn. And it's not because I felt like I have to. It's because I have so much content to share and I love sharing it.
So it's like this forever backlog of so many content ideas. So I was like, I still want to be visible. I've got time. I'm with my family. When I was back in London, I was just kind of running. wasn't even in the UK is like a holiday to me now. Like it was just a normal schedule. So I was on a normal schedule, but I'm going away in two weeks again for 10 days. And I need to figure out what this balance will be because I'm going away with two friends who are not self-employed.
Emily Jean (38:10)
I'm
Mm-hmm.
Grace (38:33)
So I need to figure out again, am I taking like the full 10 days off? I do email marketing. So I will be doing email marketing behind the scenes and creating these kind of like backend automations is good for keeping those warmest leads warm. But I haven't decided yet about LinkedIn, but basically my advice here is, you know, if you take a week off LinkedIn, as I said, your business is not going to fall to the ground. People are not going to forget who you are.
Emily Jean (38:41)
Mm-hmm.
Grace (38:59)
With the algorithm anyway, unless someone has your bell turned on to see every post, people might go a few days without seeing your content anyway. It just is how it is. So don't feel the pressure. It's important, go full circle to balance that work life and protect your mental health and enjoy your life like if you're going on holiday and not feeling this pressure to be on in business.
Emily Jean (39:08)
Just as how it is, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Right. I think for people who are not experienced with LinkedIn, and I think it is at times, it sounds really intimidating and like work heavy. How do you communicate to people why it's so important that they're on there?
Grace (39:39)
Brand visibility, ultimately. So building a personal brand is, as people say, it's career insurance, not just for, you know, it's for building a business. It's your brand to generate leads, to generate interest, to get speaking opportunities, podcasting opportunities, to meet awesome people like you. It came about through posting and being in the comments. So their career insurance, even if you're an employee.
You know, you're building a brand, puts you in a better position to get your next role than just sending off your CV with hundreds of other people. So for me, LinkedIn is so important because even though people build businesses on different platforms, Instagram, YouTube, ultimately LinkedIn exists. And it was, it started first and foremost as a professional platform for people getting jobs and doing business together. So this is why ultimately I believe
from a bias, but also non bias objective perspective, LinkedIn is the best platform for doing business because it was created first and foremost as a platform for doing business. So if you're doing business, if you're an employee, for me, you want to make sure that you're on that, you're building a brand, you're getting visible to the right people. it is what, it's a bit cliche, but like it is what positions you as an authority. If you grow.
following. You then have influence over people if you're getting invited onto panels and speaking gigs and podcasts. All of these things do ultimately enhance your reputation in the market and your authority in your niche. And if that's what you want, if you want to be influential, if you want to get opportunities, then you need to be visible. Attention is currency in today's landscape and how do you get attention through social media?
Emily Jean (41:20)
Oh my gosh, yes, absolutely. Yeah, I saw something the other day that said, if you are having trouble creating content for social media, you just haven't found the right platform yet for you. And I was like, oh, that's brilliant because I never really resonated with like posting photos of myself or posting videos. And I think long form is so much like I really enjoy it so much more. But I do have another question about that. Do you think that
Grace (41:42)
Mm-hmm. I, yeah.
Emily Jean (41:47)
LinkedIn is going to start pushing video. I know this is like a hot topic right now on LinkedIn. Do you think it is pushing video? it going to?
Grace (41:54)
So this was the talk of last year when everyone said LinkedIn is pushing video, apparently on some people's, but not everyone's on your phone app. The one in the middle, the button in the middle at the bottom was apparently a video feed. And I think they tried to create something like reels, like TikTok, where you just scroll through and it's people's videos. And everybody was telling me LinkedIn is focusing on videos.
And I even have a contact here in Tel Aviv who works at LinkedIn and he told me LinkedIn is pushing videos. But then when you'd go on LinkedIn, everybody was like, there is no, I'm not getting any additional reach or impressions. I was the same. My video content didn't do any better than regular content. Now, this is why I believe you shouldn't jump on trends. But when people ask me, should I be doing video content, I will put my hand up and say,
I got really into doing it the last few months. I've really fallen off the bandwagon with doing it on LinkedIn. But what I do say is you shouldn't do it because it's a trend and you're trying to cheat the algorithm. But video is good because people get to know your personality, hear your tone of voice, you know, decide, they like you? Do I resonate with this person? Is it someone I could see myself working with? So that's the reason why you should do video if it aligns is just because it's an amazing way to connect.
better with your audience, not because you think it's what the algorithm wants you to do.
Emily Jean (43:17)
Right. I think that's great advice. I totally agree. I don't know if LinkedIn is pushing video. If anything, I would say it doesn't seem like it, but ⁓ I do think it's a great way to break up the feed, especially because we have so much AI generated content coming through. That's like very text heavy chat GBT and same in the comments, which I have no problem with, but I think a video is a way to like.
Grace (43:26)
No.
Emily Jean (43:41)
keep things more authentic, but it is a huge investment. Like it takes a lot more time to film a video and edit a video. For me at least, I'm like super slow with it. But so yeah, I do think for people who are still getting into the habit of posting content in general, like make it as easy on yourself as possible.
Grace (43:43)
Mm-hmm.
I sure I do have a video tip there because a lot of people say that like, oh, it has to be perfectly curated. And you see these people that put videos up and they've got like words and images on the screen. And I just said, keep it simple. When I was doing my videos, this is not an affiliate link, but I use CapCut and they, it is super simple to do. I would create a script and videos no longer than 60 seconds. Again, people's attention is short and I would just
you know, look at a sentence, literally film a sentence and then click stop. And then I create the next snippet, film the next sentence. And then you can just snip all of the snippets, edit down, you know, the bit at the beginning where you're getting ready to start talking and then just put all the snippets together. And then it's got a bit where you literally like create captions. And I found it was actually a very streamlined way. As I said, a lot of people think it has to be like perfect and look really professional.
I literally say, fuck that, hope I can swear on this podcast, to all of that, it's about getting the message out there. So it doesn't have to be the perfect video. It doesn't have to be filmed in a really nice podcast recording studio. You just want to make sure that you're getting the message across and that your personality is coming across. And you can do that very simply with just like a 60 second home edited video.
Emily Jean (45:23)
Thank you for saying that. I needed to hear that actually. It's funny. Yeah, I was chatting to somebody yesterday. I keep saying that in this podcast, I find. But I was chatting to somebody and they were telling me that they really wanted, like they would only film a video if they had their hair blown out or something along those lines, which is teach their own. And, I was trying to iterate like,
Grace (45:26)
There you go.
Emily Jean (45:46)
You really don't have to. Like, I don't think people notice that much. And then, of course, I'm like very similar. When it comes to my own content, though, I'm the same way. like, gotta do my makeup and I gotta do my hair. But yeah, it just takes practice, I think, getting used to those things and making it easy on yourself.
Grace (46:02)
sure and if people want to you know do their hair and makeup before a video and you know it is nice if you're presenting yourself on a video you want you do want to look obviously subjective but you want to look presentable but more than anything you want to put yourself across in a way that feels good to you you know are you showing up in the best way so then I say like batch create them if you're gonna like do your makeup and hair for an afternoon you know write out a couple of different scripts and like film five videos in one go and that might sound overwhelming but again let's say if you
Emily Jean (46:16)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Grace (46:30)
They're just, keep the scripts short. I see people that will do a full caption with a video and just make the video 15 seconds. You know, they're just literally 15 seconds to say one point. It doesn't take long, but it's just a way to connect with your audience in a video context.
Emily Jean (46:47)
Okay, well, I like that. really think that's, I think you're so brilliant. You know that already. I don't want to take up too much more of your time. So I want to do some rapid fire questions with you. It's funny, I always say this and then I usually have them right in front of me, but this time I don't. So these are going to come right off the top of my head. Yeah.
Grace (46:52)
Hehehehe
OOOOH
Let's go, I'm excited!
Emily Jean (47:11)
What is one piece of advice you would give to entrepreneurs who are starting their own business?
Grace (47:18)
It's like so Nike, but it's literally just like, just, just do it, just go for it. You know, like it's so easy to second guess yourself. It's so easy to look at what everyone else is doing and be like, my goodness, can I do this too? But instead flip it and let that be proof that if it's possible for one person, it's possible for you. And it's like, you need to build this foundational, like unstoppable resilient mindset and just decide that there's no plan B. That's it.
Emily Jean (47:35)
Mm.
Right.
Do you have one book or course or resource or anything for budding entrepreneurs as well that you're like, I really think you should read this or look at this or anything like that.
Grace (47:55)
I used to read a load of these entrepreneurial books back in the day, but I will admit I'm not the biggest reader I just have like bad concentration to sit down and read but I do sometimes listen to Audibles and I do remember at the time is it Donald Miller how to build a story brand? my goodness I think that's the name and I remember reading that book and thinking like wow, this was really good and it was all around storytelling in business
Emily Jean (48:03)
Mm-hmm.
Grace (48:20)
to make your ideal client, ideal customer feel seen and heard and how to make them the hero of the story with everything that you put out there.
Emily Jean (48:28)
Okay, love that. I'm gonna have to look that up. That sounds very good. Interesting. Also, I really trust books that come from people who are not that big on reading because I think it's like, well, that must have had to really stick out for you.
Grace (48:31)
I'm going to go
Yeah, yes. Yeah.
I agree with that one. You know, what's also good and I read it on a recommendation after my coaching days is The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. It is a long book. It's a huge book. But again, I remember it being I remember it being good.
Emily Jean (48:57)
Spot on. Yeah. I have read that one actually, and I totally agree with that. I think that's a great book. ⁓ Yeah. You're highly effective already, know, You're fine. What is your favorite thing to do on the day off?
Grace (49:03)
Yeah, maybe I should reread it.
Love it.
Oh, that's a good one. What's a day off? No, J, because I live in Tel Aviv where it's really sunny and it's on the beach. I usually always try and take Saturdays unless I've had to take a day off in the week. Saturday is the one day where I commit I'm not working on business. So my favorite thing really is to go to the beach. I'm so lucky I live a 20, 25 minute walk from the sea. No sharks like with you in Australia. So we could get in the sea fairly risk free. And yeah, I just love being on the beach, being in the sun, going in the sea.
Emily Jean (49:17)
you
Mm-hmm.
Love, great. And then my last question is, this is my favorite question. Do you have a song or a band or album or anything that you are really enjoying right now?
Grace (49:54)
That is a great one. Okay, actually, I do have an answer for this. a couple of, at the beginning of this year, someone in Tel Aviv, she started doing country music line dancing classes, because she just wanted to. She loved it. She went to Texas or somewhere in South of North America and got really into country music. And she, and I was like, yeah, like I know her. So she was like, do want to come along? I said, I'll go along and support. And I've never been interested in country music before. And after this, was like,
⁓ my goodness, you know the song Wagon Wheel by Darius Rucker? It's like, I just started listening to this on Spotify because I loved it. And then you Spotify feed you all the same music. And I was like, ⁓ my goodness, country music is so good. So literally, it's like my guilty pleasure. I've basically become a country music fan. And all the time I just listen to country music now on Spotify. Who would have thought?
Emily Jean (50:28)
Mm-hmm.
You
Grace, we
are soul sisters because I love country music. Love it. And I never find people who love it. Everyone's like, I'll listen to anything but country music. And I'm like, no, no, no, you don't get it. It's so good.
Grace (50:55)
No! I like-
Yes,
literally I just was never bothered about it and I guess it's just I'd never listened to it properly. Now I'm like, wow, it's so good.
Emily Jean (51:12)
It's so good and it's the best. Like every time I listen to a country song, think country song, country music is perfect brand storytelling because I get lost in the feeling. Like I'm like, I need a beer. I need to put some cowgirl boots on. I need to be in the sun. Like I really get into it.
Grace (51:23)
Bye.
Yeah!
Wow,
I can't believe it's taken me all this time and now I'm like, do I need to go to a country music festival in Texas? There you go.
Emily Jean (51:38)
Mm-hmm. I think you need to get a truck.
I think you need to go to Texas, you know, get your cowgirl hat on, all of it.
Grace (51:48)
game
going on a ranch and ride horses.
Emily Jean (51:52)
Yes,
absolutely. Okay, good. We're gonna have to exchange recommendations after this then. ⁓ Okay, well, Grace, where can people find you?
Grace (51:55)
Love it.
Yes!
You the best place to find me is on LinkedIn. So Grace Lancer, I am also on Instagram at Grace Lancer coaching. I do also have a website, gracelancer.com. But yeah, LinkedIn is the best place to find me because I shouldn't admit this, but like I'm on there all the time.
Emily Jean (52:19)
Okay, good. And is there anything upcoming for you? Any big projects, anything people can support you on or anything exciting going on or?
Grace (52:29)
Many exciting things and I actually like part of my strategy is launching a lot of low ticket offers because I just love launching and delivering these small programs that deliver really quick wins you get people in. So yeah, I would say like my email list is the you know, if you want to be kept in the know for everything that I'm launching and get early bird VIP exclusive pricing, early bird access, then you want to be on my email list so you can just again like it's
on my LinkedIn profile but if not just come and drop me a DM and ask for the link and I will send it to you.
Emily Jean (53:04)
Okay, great. Well, thank you so much for joining me. This was such a good episode. I'm so excited you came on.
Grace (53:09)
I loved
it. I know. And thank you so much for inviting me. It's been so great to chat. We've been connected for a while. And then speaking last week, I really liked all the things that we spoke about. We really clicked on a few things. So I was very excited for this today. So thank you for having me.
Emily Jean (53:24)
Of course. All right. And that is a wrap.
