Why Your Brand Isn’t Getting Press (And How to Fix It) with Nadja Sayej of ArtStars Agency
Season 1 Episode 6
Why Your Brand Isn’t Getting Press (And How to Fix It) with Nadja Sayej of ArtStars Agency
Click to listen here on Spotify:
And here on Apple Podcasts:
https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/founders-club/id1802430594
Emily Jean (00:00)
Hi everyone. Welcome to or welcome back to Founders Club. I'm your host, Emily Jean, Today I'm so excited to be bringing you guys an episode with Nadja Sayej.
She is a writer, media powerhouse, CEO, and founder of Artstars Agency.
After spending 15 years as a Journalist, covering topics like arts, culture, and entertainment for Vanity Fair, The Guardian, and The Economist.
Nadja just saw the shift happening in the media world firsthand.
She went from chasing stories to helping brands and people learn to tell their own.
In this episode, Nadja and I talk about everything from the dying art of journalism to the cultural gold mines hiding outside of LA and New York. She’s shared what she's learned living in Berlin and Paris and launching her agency.
I think you guys will find her insights into why female founders should charge more, very actionable, very applicable. And it's also, beyond that, one of my favorite pieces of advice I've heard so far from a founder.
So if you're someone building a business or simply looking to take up more space in the world, this episode is absolutely for you.
As always, if you guys like this episode, feel free to leave a comment or review us on Spotify or Apple or wherever you're listening to this. You can also follow us on Instagram @afoundersclub. You can follow me on Instagram @Emily.jeans, or you can visit our website, www.livegooddigital.com to see more about the agency and learn more about the podcast.
So without further ado, here is Nadja Sayej
Emily (01:43)
Okay, Nadja welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. I've kind of told everybody already a little bit about you, but I'd love to hear in your words. Who are you? What's the brand? What's the business? why are you here today?
Nadja Sayej (02:00)
I'm here because you invited me. Thank you very much for having me. My name is Nadja. I'm currently living in New York City. Can't wait to leave. Can't wait to get out. So over it.
And yeah, I started my own agency last year after 15 years in journalism, not to date myself, but the industry has changed drastically. We live in an era where fashion PR people are willing to put influencers in the front row of fashion shows seated while journalists from major media outlets have to stand at the back.
And that just goes to show you the shift in the media right now that writers aren't important anymore. And if they are, then they go to agencies, they do copywriting work, they write articles for beauty brands on their blog or whatnot. But I hate to say it, but the media is dying. So out of that came my agency, Artstars, which is named after Artstars TV, a YouTube show I started in 2009 and ran for seven years in Toronto and Berlin.
Yeah, it was just kind of like a DIY spirit of like, I'm going to figure this out and do it the way I want it to. And I take the same approach with the agency, which is why I decided to call it that.
Emily (03:10)
Yeah, that's great. am just to go back for a second. So you said you're dying to get out of New York. Yeah. What's the big what's up with that?
Nadja Sayej (03:16)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, I just, think New York is over. I think we're living in a time when everybody's working from home. Nobody wants to even leave the house to go see their friends anymore. So, you know, you can watch runway shows on YouTube 10 seconds after they actually happen or live. So why do you need to be in a major city anymore when you can have a luxurious lifestyle with way more square footage elsewhere?
So people are figuring, you know, look at the whole rise of cottage core and everything else. You don't have to necessarily be in a major city to be relevant anymore. You just have to be tapped into the conversation and making relevant content.
Emily (03:52)
Yeah, absolutely. That's such a great point about cottagecore. I never even thought about that, but absolutely love that.
Nadja Sayej (03:56)
Yeah, right.
People running away from cities and being like, I can't stand this subway grime anymore. then, you know, turning that into a trend and then it sort of blowing up in itself. So it just goes to show you, you know, if you find your audience, then that's all you need.
Emily (04:11)
Yeah, absolutely. Where, if not New York, where for you?
Nadja Sayej (04:15)
I mean, you know, we're looking to live in the mountains probably or somewhere a little bit more, you know, chill, maybe a city with less ego. You know, there's a lot of coastal elitists here in the US, either in LA or New York, but there's a whole country in between those two cities that a lot of people forget about. So anywhere within that area, I think that we'd possibly be open to, yeah.
Emily (04:37)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, even even so much area outside of the US, like I'm in Sydney now and I just, it blows my mind. I feel like it's the secret haven that nobody talks about. It's bizarre.
Nadja Sayej (04:50)
Yeah, but there's a lot of good things coming out of Sydney as well. And it's not just Lux listening Sydney, is that what the TV show is called? Hilarious. But Rebecca Vallance is a great designer. Frankie Foer is like an excellent shoe design company coming out of there. There's really great fashion designers out of Australia, but you wouldn't necessarily think so because you don't hear about Sydney Fashion Week and things like that.
In terms of how they're making it abroad, they're able to really get themselves out there, which is impressive.
Emily (05:18)
Yeah, absolutely. you really have your finger on the pulse, feel, I mean, I'm not surprised, but everything going on coming out of places. Speaking then again of cities, what do you feel like is on a global level the biggest city that's kind of pushing forward in terms of fashion revolution?
Nadja Sayej (05:37)
I mean, I would never judge a city based on its fashion because I feel like that always comes later. But if you do want to talk about an up and coming fashion capital, I would definitely say it's Seoul, South Korea. I've been there, I've attended their fashion week. It's high quality. It's just so much more on such a higher caliber level than...
any of the European fashion weeks which are, I hate to say it, poorly funded. mean, a lot of people just get sort of hypnotized by big brand names and think that they have to get into those shows. But the shows that are in South Korea and Asia in general, they're government funded, they're properly organized, they're documented properly. So I definitely think that Asia is an up and coming fashion part of the world in general. But in terms of the US,
Besides fashion, mean, who cares about that? Then I would say Austin, Texas is definitely up and coming as a podcast, you know, hub. They've got so many high profile podcast studios and companies. They have a thriving comedy scene, you know, that just, it's so interesting that these smaller cities are finally gaining traction and, you know, competing with New York City rent prices, which is kind of hilarious, but also sad for the locals because of the hype. So,
I like to think that you have to get ahead of the, you know, get ahead of the hype and try and go somewhere that isn't, doesn't have hype that people are not talking about on podcasts and then, you know, create the culture there so more people come without excluding the locals either.
Emily (07:06)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's amazing to me just how easy it is to forget that there are these kind of huge hubs of art and culture and whatnot outside of Los Angeles and New York. I only say that given that I'm from not far from Los Angeles, so it's easy for me to get wrapped up in that same mindset.
Nadja Sayej (07:23)
Yeah,
yeah, it's crazy. And then there's people living their best lives on Fiji or, you know, in the mountains of Alberta or, you know, Alaska. you know, it took, yeah, it's just took me a while to sort of realize that you can live your life and whatever way you want to. And as long as you're pursuing your dream and making time for it, you can do your podcast anywhere and you're just, you know, proving that right now. So.
Emily (07:46)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think too, I think there's a misconception that there's a lot of influence of celebrities that live in Los Angeles and York. And of course there is, but I see like some of the most successful people I know with the most luxurious lifestyles, a lot of their lives are based outside of those cities. They just happen to have homes there as well.
Nadja Sayej (08:04)
Yeah, exactly. And sometimes those celebrities, they talk about living in places like LA and then realizing after five years, it just wasn't for me. And then they go and they move somewhere like Wyoming or Utah, like look at Jeffree Star, right? People want to do that. And they're still able to live their fulfilled lives. And they're able to run their business because they made their contacts in a big city. And then after five years, they're done with it and move somewhere else.
Emily (08:19)
Exactly.
Nadja Sayej (08:30)
That's great. I've lived in New York City for five years now and I'm definitely at that point where I'm just like, I don't know if I need to stay here. You know, we just want a bigger apartment and for like a decent sized apartment in New York City, you're gonna really pay a lot of money. And if you would rather spend your money on a house or, you know, sort of a better view or a different lifestyle, you know, if you have big dogs, let's say, then, you know, really.
pays to get out of the city. And then people say, just go to Westchester, just go up upstate. But, you know, there's so much more beauty in other parts of the country as well. Why not just explore that?
Emily (09:07)
Yeah, absolutely. Where are you originally from?
Nadja Sayej (09:08)
So I'm
from Toronto, Canada, and I just got my green card. So yeah, so I left Toronto, you know, after doing art school, after doing journalism school, and then there was the recession 2008 to 2010, it was really dire. you know, Canada is a great country if you work in healthcare and other kind of industries, but for the arts at the time I was living there,
just wasn't really not much I could have done. So I thought, I'm gonna get out of here. And I had a few friends who moved to Berlin and they were saying that they got apartments for 200 euros a month. And a lot of artists moving there is sort of like an escape just to be able to fund their own work. So I thought, okay, I'll try that. And I bought a one way flight. And then I ended up staying in Berlin for seven years. And it was a good creative scene and it was cheap and you could get an apartment for 200 euros a month.
in a neighborhood called Neukölln and now that's like 1500 euros a month, know, like as soon as all these people came and it sort of flooded it and then Google and Twitter and all these people opened their headquarters. It's just, it's usually the sign of a city's fully gentrified when the tech rose come in. And I hate to say that because tech jobs are great and we all wish we had them and we need people who work in tech. But Berlin is just a different city than what it was. And then I moved to Paris.
for a year or two and that's when I really sort of got my fashion education. And then I ended up in New York, because that was always the dream. When you move somewhere where it's like always the dream to move somewhere, you just, that's where your imagination ends and you think I'm never gonna live anywhere else except for that one place. But sometimes you change and you grow and you outgrow a dream and then there's life after that. So I think that happens to a lot of people and they shouldn't feel lost.
because dreams change and they evolve and they update. So it's okay to keep moving.
Emily (11:02)
Yeah, yeah, I love that outgrow a dream. My friend has a quote that she tells me all the time. says, giving up takes courage to something like that. Not necessarily giving up maybe is a harsh word, but I think that's really powerful. We hear so often this kind of toxic positivity of keep going, keep working, keep grinding. And then we get to the spot where it's like, what am I working towards anymore? If I'm not fulfilled or happy.
Nadja Sayej (11:05)
Ha!
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure. You have to always make sure that you're happy. So that toxic positivity thing that you mentioned, we're kind of bombarded with it because it's these quotes, they come to you at the right time or whatever. And I've always been a believer and lover of quotes like that. But there is a time when you sort of need to stop and take a break from it and sort of reflect on things yourself. And it is healthy to take a break from your dreams so you can get a different perspective.
take a break from something, try something else. I was an art critic for 10 years and then I had to stop and I started writing about fashion. Everybody thought I was out of my mind. I wanted to write about design. I just needed a break from the art world. So I totally get that you sometimes have to shift and change and sometimes, you know, do a complete 180 just to get a different perspective and to, you know, try, just try something new. Even if you don't know what you're doing at the beginning, it's fine. Yeah.
Emily (12:17)
and she's Berlin for seven years. Now that is really bad ass in my opinion. I lived in Rome just for a short time for two years, but I've seen so many friends go there and I'm like, I wish I was strong enough. That seems like a crazy place to me personally.
Nadja Sayej (12:31)
Yeah, no, Rome, hear that from my friends who have lived in Rome, that like the architecture is just falling apart. And that the buildings are really old and very difficult to live in because kind of like a crumbling city, even though it's like beautiful and it's an architectural masterpiece and it's a touristic hotspot and they have the best museums in all of Europe. I would never argue that like Rome is gorgeous. And it must have been great to live there. But Berlin is just it has like a different kind of hardcore.
energy that yeah, a lot of people can't necessarily handle. A lot of people just came and left after two years. And then I don't know, I just, I felt like I needed to stay for longer. But I think it's, it's a few things, you know, first is sort of like the cultural credibility of the city with, you know, the Burgheim nightclub, which is, you know, hard techno, and everybody wearing black and, you know, silver sort of metallic.
like weird BDSM stuff and that sort of setting a tone for a Berlin fashion week. And then, you know, also the indie music scene and all the, you know, indie designers. It's a very, school of Rick Owens style of thing that, you know, one time when I went back and visited and I wore a green dress and somebody came up to me and told me I was too colorful to be in Berlin. And I was like, okay, sorry. So it's really anti a lot of things. It's also very anti-capitalist.
Emily (13:46)
You
Nadja Sayej (13:52)
So, which is hard because a lot of artists struggle and you know if they just figured out how to monetize or set up their own Shopify or something and there weren't you know European German laws to stop them from doing that then you know things would be great. But then the German you know language is very direct so sometimes when Germans speak English it can be you know a little sharp.
So some people get really offended by that as well. And then also if you've been in Berlin for a long time, you just start talking like that because you just stop caring. And then you obviously learn German as well. But there's a good German saying that I think is a metaphor for living in Berlin and it's alles in Ordnung, which means all is in order. And that's definitely the German way of living where everything is in order, everything is organized, everything is on time, whether it's the trains, whether it's a letter in the mail, whether it's...
an event starting at exactly eight o'clock p.m. It's just everything is very organized. And that was a great lesson to run a business because you need to be very organized. So that gave me a competitive advantage for sure when I came to the US. And then I realized that a lot of people, I don't know if it's just Americans in general, but sometimes people are very easily distracted and then they forget to respond to emails because they're on social media or.
you know, they don't follow up with the lead or, you know, whatever, whatever it is. So that definitely kept me, you know, I'm on, I'm trying to stay on top of details as much as I can. And you also have to have a good memory, but you know, you can take omega-3 pills for that.
Emily (15:19)
I just have a lot of respect for that. I don't think it's any walk in the park. And absolutely, I can totally see how that would give you a like up on the competition, so to speak. That's great. OK, so just to go back a little bit, sorry, I got a bit off topic there for me. OK, so you obviously have a really rich background as a journalist before
Nadja Sayej (15:29)
Yeah, yeah, it's crazy.
Yeah.
Emily (15:40)
founding your agency, what
Nadja Sayej (15:41)
Yeah.
Emily (15:42)
kind of inspired you to transition from journalism to launching your own business?
Nadja Sayej (15:45)
Yeah, I mean, you we need more woman founders, always, but also, you know, journalism is dying. I mean, it's really changed. I hate to say that something is dying because, you know, print is dying. We don't read Vanity Fair and get subscriptions to Vogue in the same way that we used to, but it's also, you know, it's shifted and the media has become a lot more collaborative. And I just figured, you know, why not?
get involved in that and work with clients more long term because it would be great interviewing somebody who has an interesting business or a career. And then, you you interview them once the article comes out and then it's done. And so I thought, well, how interesting would it be to work with these people and mentor them or help, you know, direct them with their strategy or help them with media training and help them in that way instead. And so that's sort of been taking off.
A lot of the clients that we do work with at Artstars is to help people who are applying for visas to come to the US and they need press as part of their visa application to come to the US, whether it's for a green card, whether it's for sort of like a, I don't want to say freelance visa because there is no freelance visa, but there is more of an artist visa that's called O-1. for those visas, you need articles about you. But in order to get articles about you, you have to do something.
You have to release a book, you have to have an exhibition, you have to come up with a PR campaign. And so that's what we help them develop. And then from there, we can help them get press. But if you come to us with no portfolio, or just kind of like a bio and you know, a student portfolio, I mean, you have to do the legwork, you have to do more to show that you can do more. Yeah.
Emily (17:26)
Right.
really such a, it blows my mind how unspoken about this. I mean, I'm sure you're in the field, so it might not feel that way to you. But for me, when I look at the successful brands or business, a huge part of that is press, a huge part. And yet I don't think there's very often like a simplified process to that, in my opinion. Do you see it the same or?
Nadja Sayej (17:50)
Yeah.
I mean, I don't know, because from the perspective of as a journalist, we're so devalued and we get paid such little money. And we live in a time where, you know, we're treated like a bunch of people on a crowded bus by editors who have no time for us, more or less. And, you know, when it comes to PR people, like we are puppets to them.
They control everything that we do. They don't give us an interview with a celebrity unless we show all of the questions up front. If we're talking to anybody else in an article, we have to disclose that information. They want to see drafts before an article is published. They want to know what images were going to publish and they want to be on the call and listen to everything. And they need, they feel like they have the right to interject and interrupt an interview as well. So,
Journalists doesn't really have as much control anymore. It's in the past, we'd be able to say, no, we control the narrative of this article or this interview, this TV interview. But now PR people have so much power that they just say, you're not going to play by our rules. Sorry, we'll find somebody else, close the door on you and never contact you again. So that's just kind of the way that I've seen things work. I can give you an example. I wanted to interview a pretty famous artist.
and it was pitched to me by a PR person, but the client was not the artist, it was the gallerist who was hosting the artist exhibition in her art gallery. So I said, sure, I responded to the pitch and said, sure, I'd love to write about this artist who's very well known. And the PR person was trying to tell me, no, instead of interviewing the artist on their exhibition, you should interview the gallerist on the artist exhibition because they're the one who really matters here.
and it just didn't make any sense to me. And I told my editor and I said, listen, like, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to make this one happen. But I did have the artists who I, the famous artists, I did have their email. So I just emailed them themselves, like, and just did the email, like, without even dealing with the PR people. And I told my editor, I was planning on doing that. And she said it was fine. But she was willing to even cave to them and say, just try and get a quote from the artist if you can. And I was like, no, I'm not.
I'm going directly to them and I'm gonna try and get what I want. And a lot of people don't have that kind of determination. They're willing to just do what everybody else is telling them to do because that's their agenda and they're pressing their agenda on you and they expect you to play along with it. But you sometimes have to set boundaries and put your foot down and say, no, it's very hard to, but you have to do it. Yeah.
Emily (20:17)
Yeah, so,
jeez, that's...
Nadja Sayej (20:20)
I've been in the job for too long, so I'm sorry if I'm a little negative, but I'm just telling the truth.
Emily (20:25)
No, I like it. I appreciate it. It's refreshing. I think it's important to hear. yeah, like I said, we're overwhelmed with toxic positivity now. It's good to have a little dose of reality, absolutely.
Nadja Sayej (20:29)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah. And I just hope that it inspires people to do, you know, their own dreams and there are going to be obstacles, but you just have to keep going.
Emily (20:44)
Yeah. What do you think has kind of led to that shift in power dynamics between journalists and PR?
Nadja Sayej (20:50)
I think because a lot of advertisers have stopped advertising and publications and they just go directly to influencers and or influencer agencies, let's face it. And that type of organic coverage, because everybody's would rather spend time on Instagram and tick tock, why would you not want to find out about a new skincare brand that way? Then like some beautiful young 22 year old, you know, your model, like, sort of trying something out? Why would you read
you know, a crusty old article in Vanity Fair, you know, interviewing a few doctors and whatever. So I think that that's where a lot of the money is going. And because of that, that's where the shift of importance is. But, you know, the only thing that I say where the media still does have power is for Wikipedia pages. You cannot justify a link for social media on Wikipedia. If you are a person,
and you want to justify facts on your Wikipedia bio, you have to link press, like legitimate press outlets, not small little blogs, because that's just gonna be considered a website. It has to be like a verified news link that shows up on Google News that's indexed on Google News. So there's a certain approval process within that. And then from there, you can use those to justify certain things for your own Wikipedia bio. that's...
one of the few things that the press is still useful for, that and visa applications.
Emily (22:13)
And like this like search engine optimization as well. Probably I think that's a big key. Yeah.
Nadja Sayej (22:13)
Right?
Yeah, absolutely, for sure. you know, the press, it just doesn't have the same power as it used to. It really had the glory years, I feel like, in the 60s and 70s, maybe even, you know, the Conde Nast era of the 80s, just started to decline in the 90s. But there was a time when writers made a dollar a word and they got, you know, expense accounts and they could go and travel, you know, to go and interview somebody for two weeks and come back and write a 4000 word feature.
And those kind of articles, they're in books now, they're super interesting to read, but they're not for people with short attention spans. We live in a time where everything has to happen in a 10 second reel, otherwise you lose interest. So it's just different. Maybe I'm just dating myself, but it's just a different time.
Emily (22:50)
Right.
Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I think, too, even just looking at the media's portrayal of journalists as opposed to, like, I think you have this kind of height in the 90s and 2000s, that you have a lot of shows and movies that feature, like, writers for, you know, different magazines. And now we see more of these shows that feature social media influencers or social media marketers or something along those lines, I think.
Nadja Sayej (23:26)
There's
a lot of social media talk about journalists being the enemy. And that's a really serious detriment as well because not every journalist is going to be inserting their opinion as their agenda or whatever the heck you think it is. mean, one of my favorite writers is Chuck Closterman. And he wrote this one essay in his book, Sex, Drugs and Cocoa Puffs, a nonfiction book.
And he was just talking about like, journalism is really built on chance. Like whoever gets back to somebody first, who's writing a trend story ends up at the top of the story. I mean, just little coincidences like that. So much of it is not premeditated that way. But yes, is subjective journalism still alive? I mean, I don't really know, know, sorry, is objective journalism still alive? I don't really know. Maybe is all subjective, whether it's subjective left wing, subjective right wing.
This is why I never went into politics journalism. This is why I stuck with culture. I didn't study politics. I never wanted to write about politics. I'm an expert in art. I have a BFA in art. You know, I love culture. I've attended like global film festivals, know, art biennales, everything. And that was my life for like a really good, I would say 15 years. And I know so much and I've published eight books, but people don't read books anymore. So it's really, really sad. You know what I mean? So I started publishing photo books.
and I just put photos with captions underneath and people like those more, but still it's just like, why not just have it all online?
Emily (24:55)
Yeah, yeah, definitely a shift in the culture. Hopefully it will swing back sooner rather than later, yeah.
Nadja Sayej (24:58)
Yeah
Yeah, when I asked
designers, they say that analogs never died, it's never gone away. It's always been complimentary to digital. And it will always be there, because it can do things that digital can't do. And I do think that's right. There always is going to be charm in Polaroid photos and taking pictures of them and, you know, them having like this sense of nostalgia. And, you know, some some things like that just can't be replaced with like a filter or an app. And that's great. But, you know, we just don't know what's going to happen.
Emily (25:29)
Yeah, absolutely. What was, and you might have kind of answered this for me, but was there something specific that sparked the idea to begin this agency or was it more of like a natural transition for you?
Nadja Sayej (25:31)
That's okay.
It felt like a natural transition where I wanted to have clients and I wanted to help people. And I just kind of felt unfulfilled by journalism. Sometimes something that's your life's biggest passion might not give you the same fulfillment as it did before. And sometimes that bitterness or anger or disappointment is a signal that it's a time for a change.
because you should be able to go to your job or open your inbox and feel happy and be excited and encouraged to collaborate and work with people. And if you're just kind of angry and mass deleting all these press releases, it's probably not a good sign.
Emily (26:21)
Yeah, that seems very valid. That seems like a good point.
Nadja Sayej (26:24)
You can tell when you receive an email from somebody who seems really angry and bitter and sometimes you just think to yourself, are you, like, why would you even hit send on something like that? Just move on. Just do something like love to do. It's just not worth it. You're making up it. You're probably miserable. Just stop. I mean, it's not that journalism makes me miserable. It's opened the doors.
Emily (26:35)
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
You can.
Nadja Sayej (26:46)
of a lot of really fantastic things. I got to interview Jean-Pierre Gaultier in Berlin, all these costumes for this cabaret show in Berlin that blew my mind. You I got to interview Yoko Ono, she's still alive somewhere near a park. She's amazing. David Lynch, who recently died, I interviewed him about his Transcendental Meditation Foundation in 2018. That was incredible. So
Emily (26:59)
Yeah. Yeah.
Nadja Sayej (27:10)
I was able to interview all of these amazing people and really get to understand why certain people are at the top of their game. A-listers, how do they get there? What makes them different than us? And then try and help clients get to that point.
Yeah, right? Because that's
Emily (27:27)
It's a powerful,
it's, yeah, sorry, I'm interrupting you. Go ahead.
Nadja Sayej (27:29)
Yeah,
it's it's that's where everybody wants to be, you know what I mean? And that's think presses people think the biggest request that I get if I ever publish an article nowadays is Thanks for writing about me. Can you put a picture of me at the top? That's the biggest thing that people want nowadays. They don't even read it anymore They just want to screen grab it and put on Instagram as a stamp of approval And if there's not a picture of them at the top they get mad
And it's not my responsibility to do that. You know what I mean? It's sometimes the articles about something else. It's not about them. It's about beauty trends. It's whatever, but that's just the biggest request that I get. And that was another sort of thing that went off in my mind where I thought, vanity press is a real thing. So this is gonna be big going forward and the media is gonna have to bend to that.
Emily (27:56)
interesting.
course.
Right.
Nadja Sayej (28:23)
And if it doesn't, then people are just gonna create their own magazines and do it themselves. And some people do it really, really well. they've, like, you know, the luxury magazine market, even though it might not be print magazines, super interesting. that's just, but, so yeah, so I saw a need for it. I saw a need to help people because the only thing that PR people, no PR person has ever asked me when I rejected a pitch, I just usually ignore them, but they would ask.
they would never ask me what could I have done better in this PR pitch. Nobody has ever, ever asked me that. And if I was a PR person, I would always ask them that. I would be like, why did you reject this pitch? Just so I know I could do better next time. And I would definitely say you didn't embed or include any images in this pitch. And this is an art pit. And I have no idea what you're talking about. Nobody ever includes Instagram links or website links to things, no product.
lengths unless it's like, you know, affiliate stuff, but it's just like really, really basic, obvious things people just don't even think about sometimes. So you have to always be willing to ask, well, how can I improve and be willing to take that, just put your ego aside. Nobody's perfect and we can always improve.
Emily (29:35)
Yeah, I love that. think that's probably my favorite thing I've heard all day. But that's such a good point. I not to be religious, but there's like, you know, in in Judaism, I think there's there's a concept of investigation of truth, kind of constantly asking questions in on all sorts of scales. And I think that is such an integral part of growing and becoming better, doing better for
on every level is asking questions, what can I do better, specifically asking experts and people who hold the keys, like why wouldn't you? Worst case scenario, somebody says, somebody doesn't reply, you know?
Nadja Sayej (30:05)
Yeah. Yeah,
yeah, you have to always ask. And that's why I feel like people underestimate customer feedback forms.
because that's really like a golden ticket to really do your job better, help sell things and help, you know, if you're selling products, for example, if it's and let's say you have a client, they're on like a six month retainer, at the end of that, you know, if they don't renew, then I would definitely just try and ask and say, what could we have done better? Or, you know, if you're taking a break and coming back later, like you just have to be willing to listen to that. And it's hard because it hurts, but it will make you better.
Emily (30:45)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I even I was reading books the other day and the author was talking about when he was in college, any time he got less than 90 % on a paper or an exam or something like that, he would go to the professor and say, Okay, what did I do wrong? What can I do better? And he said, it got to a point where I'd be in the office for three hours, I would learn so much and also
my professor would be so pissed off. I was asking all these questions that they think twice about giving me a lower score in the future. but I just love that concept of like, it's so rare to think outside the box like that and be like, why not just ask? Why be happy with the score you're getting? Like it absolutely does nothing but grows you as a person.
Nadja Sayej (31:22)
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure. And it's not just that, but also creating products or services where people can pay for money, always have available, whether it's in your packages or on your website, always have available a custom bespoke package, which is higher price than the rest, because sometimes people are willing to make that jump and to take that risk. So that's something to keep in mind.
Emily (31:49)
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so.
Nadja Sayej (31:53)
If there's something I want to talk about as a woman in this center, would definitely say that pay women what they're worth. Don't try and talk down their prices. They've set their rate for a reason. Accept it. If you're not willing to accept it, go away and come back later when you can afford it. If it's too expensive or if you're going to talk them down, at least give them less work.
but something I found as a woman business owner is that people think that they can just easily talk down your prices when you've set them for a reason. There's a great respect that you give to a woman by accepting the rate that she's set.
Emily (32:29)
Absolutely. And I think to add on to that too, I'd say to women business owners and founders, charge more. I can't even tell you how many young girls I talk to and I'm like, you're doing all that work for not even minimum wage. mean, it's amazing. It blows my mind. I mean, I can't blame anyone, of course. Like, how could you and the culture we have now expect to kind of
Nadja Sayej (32:36)
Yeah.
Emily (32:52)
outdo the norm but it charge more that's I always tell any of my friends.
Nadja Sayej (32:56)
Yeah, always charge because
there's probably a male agency or business that is charging double and still getting it because they can talk the talk and they have confidence and whatever else. you know, be confident, don't be afraid to raise your prices every year or two with valid reasons and offer more. You know, you can't just be doing things just for the sake of it.
And hopefully that will help fund the growth of your business. Right? Yeah.
Emily (33:25)
Yeah, absolutely.
Can you share a success story that I think really that would highlight the impact of your work so far? it applies to, you you've helped a bunch of businesses and entrepreneurs now stands out with targeted press and marketing. Is there? Yeah.
Nadja Sayej (33:40)
Yeah, I would say so many
examples. I'm just going to try and mention a few of them. But the biggest issue that I think that people have is figuring out how to make them culturally relevant. You can come with a bio or a website, but how does it how does it connect with the cultural conversation that we're having right now? If you are a slipper brand and you sell durable slippers,
but you're not talking about this outdoor slipper trend that's happening, which started with Justin Bieber, I think in 2018, him just going outside in hotel slippers, and then that becoming a trend, you're missing out on a large part of the conversation that you can sell. So, the new outdoor slipper, that's a headline right there. That will help sell it and put it above, a cut above the rest. If it's a durable slipper that's good enough to handle sidewalks. You know what I mean? So that's one type of example. Another example is that,
a really, really good written bio. Don't underestimate that. I know that we have these things on LinkedIn right underneath our photo, but like a really good written bio that is unapologetic and shows how you stand out from the industry will really put you ahead. Things like that I think are important. And then also not forgetting, like having on your website a list of upcoming things. People think that they're currently...
interesting enough, but the media, for example, only finds you interesting not because of what you've done in the past, but because of what you're going to do in the future. If you have an upcoming exhibition, if you have an upcoming launch party, all of these things are really, really important so you can promote, you know, what's going to happen in the future.
Emily (35:18)
I think that's great advice. That's your wealth of knowledge, truly.
Nadja Sayej (35:22)
Yeah, yeah. I don't even know where it comes. I just, you know, it just it just accumulates, I guess, over the years. So yeah, so it's it's it's like a really tricky field that's always evolving. But, you know, any brand can succeed if you want to sell your product or even if you just want to sell yourself. But, you know, media training is a huge part of that. Sometimes people have really gorgeous websites, amazing products.
Emily (35:28)
Yeah, years of experience.
Nadja Sayej (35:49)
but once you get the CEO or the founder on the phone, if they don't have passion or energy to talk about it, maybe they're just like a really boring, you know, business person who went to business school and they're really good at their job. And I don't doubt that for a second, but you need an engaging personality to really do the media interviews because you have to sell it. So those types of people definitely need media training. sometimes having five different points, I helped.
one client who is a divorce lawyer and he was making reels and I was in front of him while he was talking to them. And he was just kind of like, you know, talking diplomatically about, you know, supporting his clients. But then once he hit a pain spot when he started talking about a woman who couldn't even afford a divorce and pointed at the camera and said that I'm gonna get you, that's when the real him started to come out. And that's the real that he ended up using to get the clients because
That kind of energy is what a lot of people want in a lawyer, somebody who's really tough and who's fierce and who's gonna get the ex and get the justice for the wife or the partner or whatever it is. So you have to sometimes bring out the fire in other people in order for them to, because they just wanna come across as professional and even, everything, but that sometimes it's not gonna work. You just, need a little bit, you need.
more and you have to demand more from people. Yeah.
Emily (37:14)
Yeah, yeah. I mean,
we're, we're infiltrated with personalities that are so in your face. I mean, you look at a lot of our political leaders and but I mean, give it also pretty much any famous influencer celebrating now. And how could you not stand out if you're not? Yeah, have some more passion behind it. Yeah.
Nadja Sayej (37:20)
Yeah!
If you're not, right, and you have to be super
enthusiastic and you don't grab somebody in the first three seconds, you're not successful. I get that. Right. So, but there's there's more to that than that. So.
Emily (37:40)
Absolutely. Yeah.
Yeah. I don't want to go too much over your time because I know that you have to leave in a bit. So you can just do these last ones kind of rapid fire here. OK. So you might have already answered this, but favorite city to work in and why.
Nadja Sayej (37:59)
I mean, I really like Miami. It's got such a good energy and it's sunny and it's great year round. A lot of people make fun of me because they think it's trashy and kitschy and whatnot, but Miami is cool. Same with the Maldives. I really like Oslo, Norway. If you haven't gone, you should really, really go there. It's wonderful. And so Helsinki, Finland. I'm Canadian. I can handle the Nordic winter. Not a lot of people can.
but give the Nordics a chance because it's quiet, it's peaceful, it's safe, and if you just want to get a bunch of work done, just go up there for an Airbnb for a month.
Emily (38:33)
Great, I've not heard that yet. That's a good answer. Okay, the most surprising thing about starting your own business.
Nadja Sayej (38:36)
Yeah, I love it.
The accountability. Everything comes back to you. I have a few people who work for me or work with me, however you want to call it. And at the end of the day, their mistakes are my problem. And I have to make sure that I correct them and that it doesn't start a fire externally. So there's a lot of damage control. There's a lot of communication. You don't want to
lose your mind at somebody for making a mistake, but you're accountable for everything when you are the CEO and that LLC is in your name.
Emily (39:11)
Yeah, yeah, slowly.
Nadja Sayej (39:12)
Yeah, so it's serious.
Emily (39:14)
Yeah. If you could interview anyone today, who would it be?
Nadja Sayej (39:19)
It would be Joan Rivers, but she's dead. Rest in peace, queen. Cause she was so open and honest and brash and fearless. And we need a lot more people like that. I remember she was doing a Q and a session at a talk show and a woman raised her hand and said, what advice do you have for women business owners? And I remember Joan Rivers said, just don't even think about the fact that you're a woman. Just do it. Just do the business. And I kind of love that, you know, because you don't let certain things get in your way.
Emily (39:22)
Mm.
Yeah, so well then I have a good follow up for you. What is one piece of advice you have for aspiring entrepreneurs?
Nadja Sayej (39:54)
I mean, it's such a difficult question. And I love that question because I ask it in every single interview. But my advice would just be get started. And it's never too late. If you have a dream at the back of your mind that of something that you really have always wanted to do, whether you start it, know, 35, 45, 55, it doesn't matter, just do it because it will make you a happier person inside. And that's going to attract better energy into your life. So take
take risks. That's my advice. Definitely take risks. And if something's not working, you can always pivot and make it work for you. But you cannot just sit there and be afraid and worried about what other people are going to think about you. Because people are too self-absorbed. They're just thinking about themselves. Just do it.
Emily (40:35)
This is all really resonating. I love this. Okay, last one. One book or resource that's had the biggest impact on you or your career?
Nadja Sayej (40:43)
mean, on me, definitely think, mean, Khalil Gibran, I mean, he's the author of The Alchemist, he's definitely one of my favorite writers. I definitely think Les Brown, who's a motivational speaker, is somebody who, he's also a book author, him, Tony Robbins, Jim Rohn, know, David Goggin, like there's all of these thinkers that I try and listen to on regular basis to keep me going.
But in terms of books, I'm trying to think. Gary V's books are definitely really, really good, there's this one, Brian Tracy, yeah, I'm looking at the book right now. Brian Tracy is an author who helps people organize their lives and their business by putting things into order of priority. So Brian Tracy books have definitely made me question.
things like you said that questioning is important. Questioning yourself is very, important because that's really where you get the growth done. If not just, you you don't have to get all like, theorized about it. It's about growing your business. It's about growing your fortune. It's about growing your bank account too. How are you going to get there? Questions will help you get there. So will a financial advisor.
Emily (41:50)
Yeah. Well, that's great. Thank you so much. think think like everything you just said is the best thing I ever heard.
Nadja Sayej (41:57)
Okay, great. That's what we do. So thank
you for having me on your show and I look forward to seeing all the first season live.
Emily (42:10)
Yeah, yeah, of course. And where can people find you? Where can they find the agency?
Nadja Sayej (42:14)
It's just artstress.agency and then, know, probably I'll put the link below, but you can find me on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, NADJA, S-A-Y-E-J, very unique name. Nobody else has one like it, so.
Emily (42:27)
Yeah, yeah, great. I like that. Okay, well, thank you so much for joining me. That's it. Yeah.
Nadja Sayej (42:31)
Thank you.
